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Britain is stronger alone, “we want our country back”
The UK or Britain is NOT a country or a nation the UK is a 4 country union
being Britsih is being from the Britsih Isles same as being European is being from Europe
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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I like this quote from Charles Moore in the Brext organ, The Daily Telegraph.
So it is, I like many get some information from the media...I am a fool.
Others admit to reading the papers...They are fools.
Many watch the TV news...Armchair slouches.
Many read the Left or Right wing Daily Mail....All of them idiots.
You quote the Telegraph...Your a wise one.
Yes I agree with you on every statement from above you made.
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 now complain about emotion
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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“It was that same idealism which inspired the idea of the European Union in the founding fathers “
Shame it appears to have got high-jacked by the financial institution Goldman Sachs back in 2011, then Mickeyfinn 
Looks as though the link between Goldman Sachs and the European Union goes quite deep according to this article back in 2011….
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/what-price-the-new-democracy-goldman-sachs-conquers-europe-6264091.html
“This is The Goldman Sachs Project. Put simply, it is to hug governments close. Every business wants to advance its interests with the regulators that can stymie them and the politicians who can give them a tax break, but this is no mere lobbying effort. Goldman is there to provide advice for governments and to provide financing, to send its people into public service and to dangle lucrative jobs in front of people coming out of government. The Project is to create such a deep exchange of people and ideas and money that it is impossible to tell the difference between the public interest and the Goldman Sachs interest. “
Mmmm, and didn't Mark Carney work for them for thirteen years too?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35366994
Among those leading the charge is Goldman Sachs. For three years, the bank’s executives have publicly warned about the downsides of leaving the EU. The bank has donated around $700,000 to a group which is lobbying against Brexit, according to a person familiar with the matter. Its executives have signed warning letters to major British newspapers. An EU flag currently flutters above its London headquarters. Last fall the bank organized events on the sidelines of opposition Labour and governing Conservative party conferences to debate the role of the U.K. in Europe.
This message was last edited by ads on 28/05/2016.
This message was last edited by ads on 28/05/2016.
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now complain about emotion
Sorry Micky, haven't a clue as to what that refers to?
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If you chose economics as a serious profession then working for Goldman Sachs is the global gold standard. I am not going to defend the investment banking business. It’s a profession full of contradictions, suspicions, failures and secrecy.
However you are seriously mistaken if you regard anyone of the stature of Mark Carny as being tainted just because at some point in his career path he worked for that company.
Goldman’s have global reach. It would be surprising if they were not at some point involved in the lobby process to achieve their own particular aims. Most business does that at some point. It is part of the democratic process. I don’t believe in conspiracies. The vast majority of people in public and corporate life are honorable. There are of course exceptions and the last recession exposed them as is usually the case.
I saw a film today called Bridge of Spies. It’s based on a true story about a New York lawyer in 1957 played by Tom Hanks and a soviet spy named Rudolf Able, played by Mark Rylance. The CIA appointed the Hanks character to defend Able as a process to show the US was fair. They did not expect the lawyer to see the process as a matter of principal. He believed in justice for all no matter whom or what you are.
He had ideals. He was pilloried attacked and threatened. He stood firm believing in what was right. If you believe in the right of something you must stand up and be counted. If you are in a position to influence the public of the validity of your argument it’s equitable so to do. Despite the personal costs.
Carney and every other public figure who has spoken up to remain, no doubt considered the likely consequences. I am sure there are times in most ordinary people’s lives they have done the same.
If you believe passionately in the European ideal you should try and further it by speaking out. Part of that process is being attacked by others who believe differently. That is fine. However attack with a counter argument or not at all please. It’s not personal its politics.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Britsih
Try telling an Irishman he's British!
British usually taken as coming from Gt Britain these days.
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Britain is stronger alone, “we want our country back”
Been looking for these on UKIP literature with little luck.
Best I could do with the first was 'Britain is stronger out' but this is a parody of the 'Britain is stronger in' campaign
Best I could do with the second is 'we want our democracy back' (unless joan Collins is a UKIP rep but even then it's not accurate).
Needless to say I tend to agree with the sentiment for both in the correct context
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now complain about emotion
One should be happy and the other sad but being Micky it's a bit one sided!
But we will see how they look on the 24th.
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Good to see you're not defending these investment banks per see, but to state Goldman Sachs as the global gold standard says it all given the realities we have all observed during this last decade, and the massive fine now placed against them. It's important to keep an open mind Mickeyfinn and not just defend on a principal alone without recognising an unhealthy ( some might suggest unethical) pattern of events that go way beyond the lobbying process. Sometimes a reference to conspiracy can obscure/ detract away from unethical practice hence the need to retain an open mind.
What appears the most concerning is when unethical and manipulative ploys override good principal to the detriment of democracy where those who hold no democratic mandate from citizens gain sufficient power and influence to undermine compliance and a regulatory system in place to protect against abuse.
I understand the principal you are defending but when banks have the power to create a global recession on the scale we are ALL recovering from and then demonstrate a similar pattern of events of manipulative ploys to strategically place themselves in positions of power and Influence within the European Union (and the power to bring a nation state to its knees following their highly questionable ploys to gain them access to the EU from the outset) then warning bells should be ringing loud and clear. This is not conspiracy theory Mickeyfinn it's just praying that heightened awareness by us all will hopefully prevent a potential far reaching reoccurrence of events.
Is that so wrong?
This message was last edited by ads on 29/05/2016.
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I don't disagree with anything in your last post ads. Remember however the USA allowed Lehman Bros to go to the wall. The British should have done something similar with RBS. Failure should bring consequences.
Goldman's former head in Europe Jim O'Neil is now a government treasury functionaire with responsibility for anti biotics misuse. Government needs talent in its ranks. Po!iticians are generally very limited. There is a line they cannot cross.
Mark Carney has been held to account for what he said before a treasury select committee last week. He robustly defended what he said on the economic merits of remaining in the EU for Britain. The idea he is some government stooge is ludicrous.
Why would anyone ignore that advice when so many other voices with equal merit say the same? Leaving Europe to fend for yourselves in a global market place when the nation has every advantage already in place seems to me the height of folly.
Even the leave campaign does not now seem to be denying there will be negative consequences. Actually I don't think the British people want to vote to be poorer.
Young people with a long future ahead of them if they get out and vote will make the difference in the referendum.
People of my generation have usually done very well in life. We are called 'the goldilocks generation' for very good reasons. Young people resent how we made their prospects much harder. We are also self -satisfied and in the main know leaving Europe will not impact their own lives. They have enough that will protect them so can afford to take major risks with their nations future. They are easily pursuaded by the propaganda of UKIP who know they have a captive persuaded audience.
Young people should realise this referendum is about their futures, their yet unborn childrens hopes and dreams. Their counties future. They should not allow their parents and grandparents to decide that future for them.
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 29/05/2016.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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I'm always amused when people show deference to the likes of Mark Carney.
For him obviously it's a dream come true. The 1st class carriage on the Gravy Train and literally a non-job. He literally doesn't have anything to do. He gets 5 star expenses to go to conferences and meetings with other scroungers.
As a shareholder of Scotia for many years I was surprised he got the job in Canada (Canadian banks have been more like the old British banks before the wide-boys got in). As an Irish Canadian who had lived in England and America I think the Canadians saw him as neutral. Good luck to him but he is only a well paid puppet. Actually his wage is less now than were he in one of the top jobs at GSachs but obviously his future benefits from a political post within the EU are beyond greed.
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Yanis Varoufakis the former Greek finance minister has joined forces with the Labour Party in supporting the 'remain' camp. He said "as our joint declaration affirms, we stand united in our belief that a democratic, prosperous Britain can only be won in the context of a pan-European struggle to democratise the EU.”
He perhaps more than anyone would be likely to be against the EU as an institution. However he seems to share the same aims as many. Remaining a member is Britains best chance of reforming the EU for the benefit of Europe as a whole.
Manxmonkey: There is a difference between deference to the position of Bank of England governor and the individual. He got the job on merit the role belongs to the people.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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You are digging yourself into a deeper hole. I'm just surprised you can't see it.
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Mickeyfinn, Greece's fate appears sealed now given they are in the eurozone and inextricably linked in with debts that are like a noose around their neck. Having witnessed his people's fear at being made bankrupt, do you honestly think there was any option for them? These banks who have such power are like leeches and control lives at the expense of a Govt who become mere puppets. It's unforgivable and a warning of just why strict regulation with adequate enforcement and clear monitoring measures to make BANKS fully accountable for their unethical behaviour are absolutely essential if we want to retain our freedoms and democracies.
Do you honestly believe that Greece has any choice in the matter given the status quo at this moment in time when it would require being completely bailed out by the IMF and ECB to whom it already has an extraordinary debt? To be fair it was Christine Legarde who has been calling for some less onerous debt relief criteria as she recognises the senseless downward spiral that has been brought upon this nation. But the ECB don't appear keen. I wonder why?
To repeat to be controlled by Banks ( even indirectly) who have their own agenda and demonstrate a complete disregard for moral authority and unwillingness to reform ( without adequate controls in place) with unelected powers to place noose round necks so to speak, does a grave disservice to all hardworking citizens of Europe, and if ever there should be a wake-up call to remain aware of such a structure then this is it.
This message was last edited by ads on 29/05/2016.
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Without wishing to detract from this thread there are many that are so relieved to see Spain starting to stand up to such unethical behaviour as some 12 years and more on, Banks are finally being made more accountable for their total disregard for law and requirement to honour their responsibilities with regard to Bank Guarantees, where thousands of people have battled ( are still battling) to gain their inalienable rights.
It's a long story and still many legal fights remain if full accountability is to be achieved. But the moral of the story is that you need strong Govt ( with adherence to rule of law) and defined structures in place if banks are to be adequately controlled.
Apologies if some feel this is not the place to identify this scenario but it just acts as a stark example of what citizens are "up against" when trying to defend against banks who are loathe to reform their business practices from within.
Recognise the warning signs??? 😞
This message was last edited by ads on 29/05/2016.
This message was last edited by ads on 29/05/2016.
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What surprises me about this thread is the level of dissatisfaction contributors feel about almost everything. Banks are all villains, politicians are all puppets of vested interests, independent institutions are corrupt and doing the bidding of government. Immigrants are destroying your way of life and the country is going to hell in a hand cart. It’s all down to the nasty big bad wolf the European Union.
From my own European perspective, for I spend my time in different EU states but admittedly not Britain, life is pretty much the same as it always has been. French workers are striking and rioting but the people give a Gallic shrug and say c'est la vie. Spain seems unaffected by the crisis. The Spanish still ride around in their Mercedes and Audis and the Brits keep coming and keep getting ripped off. The country still hasn’t a government but everything still works and the trains are still on time.
There is not a palpaple level of dissatisfaction among their populations that I read on here. I talk to lots of people in both countries. The French always grumble but not about the EU more their own elected leaders because they know the difference. The Spanish live and let live in their own enviable way.
So why are the British seeming so miserable and dissatisfied with their lot? Or are my fellow posters simply not representative of the nation as a whole? Or is it just politics because of the referendum?
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Not sure where you live or go to Micky but we had a home in San Raphael, France. Now you might think having a very traditional French way of life totally changed by the influx of thousands of immigrants who bring their own culture with them not noticeable and I'm sure you feel me and my kids are racist lunatics by feeling uncomfortable and missing the very way of life that we enjoyed in the first place but there are plenty of normal ordinary, nice people, not evil racist swines just are sad and fed up with the change. There are now Italian islands that are now like Syria or Iraq. Property values have gone to zero. If you think that's a good thing do you want all of Europe to sink to the standards of the middle east? And it always sink, they never bring the area up, just take it down and since retiring I've worked as an overseas aid worker and I can tell you now they are all exploited by their own, not usually by the locals. This is whether they only reach Myanmar or the badlands of the Thai / Malaysian border or make it to Greece or Italy or London. most of us when faced with poor people do our best to help, we just wishe they weren't coming over in the first place. But a policy of giving free housing and etc. to anyone who can make it will get more publicity back in Bangladesh than the hardly publicised fact that they'll end up working for a Bangladeshi or Somali paying them peanuts and charging them most of those wages in loans, fees and lodging cost while the bosses flit around in the Mercedes and Bentleys.
Regarding banks I think people are fed up because a lot of them have probably had very poor service from them in one way or another. I certainly have and I feel agrieved at the arrogance shown to me by the bankers I have had to deal with. So therefore I feel entitled to moan! And I believe I'm in the majority of feeling that banks "aren't what they used to be". My main bank has been taken over 4 times while I've been with them and the standards are so low it's disgusting. I said I was considering moving my account and I just got a standard letter with the contact details of the Banking Ombudsman! I've now left them and gone back to a British Bank but I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
Politicians, greedy and in collusion with big business? Hmm, I have to agree with them on that as well. and the EU has worked with French and German businesses and agri/fishing industries to destroy the same in the UK. Whe Irish farmers are paid to cut down orchards where do they buy their apples from then? France of course.
Now what else was it we've all been moaning about? LoL.
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So why are the British seeming so miserable and dissatisfied with their lot?
Because too many are never satisfied and believe their way is best and everyone should do as the British do, reluctant to accept change even if it is clear the change is for the better.deep down they know they are wrong yet do noithing about it. Many others are so far up their own ar**es what do you expect
typical example is language skills, yes English is universal but so many don't even try and the expats well that's another story as they expect to live in a foriegn country refuse to learn the language, drive illegal taxis, claim UK benefits, work cash in hand, don't pay taxes etc etc etc, whing about everything and everyone
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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however the USA allowed Lehman Bros to go to the wall. The British should have done something similar with RBS. Failure should bring consequences.
I agree with that. It would have brought the others up short. Joe public should have been protected though.
The problem was (if the government had been so inclined) in the name of the bank. Letting a 'Scottish' bank go to the wall would have had political consequences.
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tteedd said
(Letting a 'Scottish' bank go to the wall would have had political consequences)
Or more to the point, racist consequences.
This message was last edited by Hephaestus on 29/05/2016.
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I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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