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Doom and Gloom preaching is not the way to go about trying to fix anything ....How you go about fixing anything can be put down to positive progressive thinking .and not forgeting to look on the bright side of life it work's for me every time.😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀
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"Another waster in the house of Lords. He was born in Niarobi of S African parents and lived originally in S Africa. As a S African he came to the UK to cause trouble and complain about Aparthied. If he had any political guts he would have remained in S. Africa and campaigned about aparthied there. Instead he teamed up with another socialist from N Zealand (Brian Gould - who thankfully went back to NZ) to promote the socialist cause here. I used to think at one time that we were somehow superior to the americans becuse you have to be borne in America to be President. I was foolish. People not born British should not come here to seek power, tell us what to do including continue to subvert our democracy in the undemocratic EU and live at the expense of the British Taxpayer. To me he is worse than the benefit cheats, at least they or their parents may have paid into the system."
This thread contains many examples of well informed, thoughtful, measured contributions to the debate. And then there is the above contribution. I never knew Peter Hain was once Prime Minister, claimed DSS benefits and was at the helm of the fascist EU busily undermining great British democratic institutions ( like the House of Lords) - but that's the inference. Yes, you were foolish then and now.
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Scollins
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Lord Hain came to the UK from South Africa as a teenager, and was a noted anti- apartheid campaigner in the 1970s.
When Hain was 10, he was awoken in the early hours by police officers searching his bedroom for 'incriminating documents'.
Hain became chairman of the Stop The Seventy Tour campaign which disrupted tours by the South African rugby union and cricket teams in 1969 and 1970. In 1971 a World In Action programme featuring Peter Hain debating Apartheid in South Africa at the Oxford Union.
In 1972 he was sent a letter bomb that failed to explode because of faulty wiring. In 1976 Hain was tried for, and acquitted of, a 1974 bank robbery, allegedly having been framed by the South African Bureau of State Security.
In 1977, he was a founder of the Anti Nazi Leagueand he remains a prominent supporter of Unite against Facism today.
He helped change the UK from being quiet on the subject of Apartheid into a driving force for it to be a vocal opponent. He was not born in the UK or the EU but has made substantial contributions as have many other migrants have to the UK.
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What part of Brexit will you be happy with and what will you do if you don't get what you think you voted for
You have no idea what the deal will be and you will have no say in whatever the govt agree
The same goes for every brexit voter all won't be happy whatever the outcome
I will be perfectly happy if we leave the EU, as I suspect will most people who voted out.
Had the referendum gone the other way I would have been perfectly happy that the will of the electorate had been tested.
I'm a democrat.
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Many people and nations across the world stood against apartheid the UK govt at the time was NOT one off them sadly
Tad
All parties in the UK including the government were against aparthied. It is a slur to say otherwise. I cannot remember a single politician, public figure or adminstration ever being anything but against it. A quick 'Google' would soon have put you right. This is the first that came up when I 'googled' but I am sure there is plenty more.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/margaret-thatcher/11403728/Margaret-Thatchers-secret-campaign-to-end-apartheid.html
This message was last edited by tteedd on 23/02/2017.
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Apparently when the UK leave's the EU block .....Brussels are considering filling the .empty spot by letting the Ukrainian's join the EU all 40 million of them will have visa free access to the rest of the EU block.
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Tteedd, well said the will of the electorate has been tested, and has come down on the side of an exit verdict. The problem arises with members of the public, and also Politicians who, although democratically elected, cannot accept the verdict given by a majority of the British public just a shame some cant accept it.
One of the worst offenders in my mind is Nicola Sturgeon, who cannot accept a decision by the English to leave, so is trying to impose another Scottish referendum to leave the United Kingdom. So she doesnt want to be a member state of the United Kingdom, but embraces being a member state of the European Union. What a hypocrite! If she wants independence surely independence would mean not being a member of ANY union? Independence surely means just that, going alone?
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Interesting arrangement between Canada and the EU...
Canadian Immigration Minister John McCallum has said visa requirements for Bulgarian and Canadian nationals will be dropped as of next December.
The Canadian government intends to enforce the step as of December 01, 2017, according to a government statement.
However, Ottama would reserve the right to reimpose the visa requirement "should irregular migration trends increase significantly from either country."
"In the lead-up to the full visa lifts, Canada intends to implement partial lifts for eligible Romanian and Bulgarian citizens travelling to Canada for May 1, 2017," the statement reads.
It also says Romanian and Bulgarian citizens who have held a Canadian temporary resident visa in the past 10 years or who currently hold a valid United States (U.S.) non-immigrant visa would not require a temporary resident visa and would be able to fly to or transit through Canada with an Electronic Travel Authorization (eTA) instead of a visa.
Lifting the visa requirements was a key condition set by Bulgaria and Romania in exchange for support of the EU-Canada Compehensive Economic and Trade Agreement (CETA) signed on Sunday.
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So the question then remains, will the EU cut off its nose to spite its face as per the rhetoric of EU Commissioners, or will the EU Parliamentarians seek a realistic compromise that treats the UK post Brexit as other nations such as Canada in its ongoing trading arrangements where the visa system is regulated according to the needs and well monitored pattern flows of recipient nations? In other words replicate the Canadian model which appears to be of mutual and fair benefit.
Isn't this what the UK have been requesting all along to be able to control and better manage migration from the EU according to the needs and ability of the country to cope (rather than by an intransigent strict dictat with little flexibility or fairness to realistically evaluate and adequately respond (where necessary) to impact in terms of scale, timeframe, and scope?
Canada highlighted Romania and Bulgaria, which is interesting since the UK migration figures (ONS) that have just been announced demonstrate that the highest increase in migrants to the UK has now shifted to Romania and Bulgaria (up 19,000 to 74,000), and according to an interview this morning (on “Victoria live” on BBC1), with a Polish recruitment agency, they have noticed a downturn (with a shift of Poles towards Germany), in part apparently due to UK benefit changes.
Also according to this article
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/23/office-national-statistics-immigration-record-number-eu-migrants-likely
New official UK migration figures to be published on Thursday are expected to show that a record number of European migrants have come to work in Britain since the Brexit vote last June.
Separate official figures are expected to show that the post-Brexit rush by European Union nationals in Britain to secure their right to remain by applying for residency certificates has left the Home Office with a mountain of nearly 100,000 “work in progress” applications.
The quarterly Office for National Statistics data covers the period from July to September – the first full quarter since Britain voted for Brexit in the summer referendum.
Is CETA therefore an agreement worth replicating in order to attain a mutually beneficial outcome for the UK and the EU alike, given EU member state nation's ongoing dependence on UK trade?
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Robert I agree with you. But would point out that it was the UK including many in Scotland that voted to leave.
Devolution was another of Blair's big mistakes. Eventually, if we keep having referendums in Scotland, one will go for independence.
Just as I would have accepted the result of the EU referendum, whatever it was, so should Sturgeon respect the result of the Scottish referendum.
The UK has been one country for 300 years now, we live on one island and are much more closely bound than the ties that tied us to the EU. Many, like me, have ancestry on both sides of the border. The Union should be much stronger than the one we are leaving.
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Tteedd
You might want to do a search on Maggie's support for apartheid and other leading politicians such as Churchill andanu UK businesses to name one Barclays who were blacklisted by the students union in the 80's as a result
Yes Maggie made a u turn after media and public pressure
It is not a slur but a fact
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Margaret Thatcher mainly supported apartheid as her husband Denis had many business interests in South Africa meaning if Apartheid was abolished her family could potentially have lost a considerable amount of investment in the country. Therefore she endorsed apartheid as quietly as she could, as she dreaded the potential loss if South Africa and its economic position changed for the worse as she saw it.
This message was last edited by robertt8696 on 23/02/2017.
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I thought this was the All things Brexit thread .
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ads -Canadian Immigration Minister John McCallum has said visa requirements for Bulgarian and Canadian nationals will be dropped as of next December.
Yes and the UK will have to do similar when it seeks trade deals with India and other mass populated states. That is one more reason why Brexit will only increase immigration to the UK not the hoped for opposite by they who voted to leave. A fraud has been inflicted on the electorate and when it becomes more obvious a back lash will ensue.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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windtalker, i realise that the previous posting does not on the surface seem brexit related , but indirectly it is, as it has relevance to why politicians make economic and immigration decisions with regard to the UK, and when considering the exit from the EU things not immediately apparent to the electorate need to be considered before making a referendum decision with their vote. I feel both sides , for and against leaving the European Union tried putting a spin on the reason regarding a vote , and as such neither side satisfactorily gave the electorate any intelligent information regarding which way to vote. As such i feel the referendum was totally distorted at the end, but being a person who is democratic, the final majority is the way we all go, so we should all go with exit, and work towards a better life and country, not complain about the result.
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Mickyfinn Canada has the same emigration policy as Australia .....you can apply for a holiday Visa anytime stay for a holiday and then go back home ....just try and get a emigration Visa you will spend many thousands of pounds trying to get one you will also need a job sponsor Canada or Australia will never let uncontrollable migration from the EU especially from eastern Europe disrupt the balance system that they have in force .
This message was last edited by windtalker on 23/02/2017.
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Mickeyfinn,
You failed to highlight " However, Ottama would reserve the right to reimpose the visa requirement "should irregular migration trends increase significantly from either country." "
So this means that controls would apply if the Canadian agreement was replicated in the UK, and Windtalker appears correct in his surmise that uncontrollable migration from the EU would no longer apply. Even better if we could introduce the Electronic Travel Authorization (eTA) instead of a visa. that was made mention of in the CETA agreement which would provide flexibility depending on the needs of the country.
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Brexit seems to be  WORKING IMMIGRATION massively down THATS A GOOD THING yeh?
I predict it WILL BE NEGATIVE 2019 WHICH WILL EASE OUR well underpressure SERVICES
 Hugh
Be NICE to get back TO 50 MIL INDIGENOUS
This message was last edited by hughjardon on 23/02/2017.
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Done the Spain thing Happier in the UK
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Hugh, after Brexit i feel it will only restrict certain EU individuals from entering, as people will most likely have "reserved" status applied to their entry application with regard to their job, and value to the UK economy. This will be the sort of job thats in demand, such as engineers, and doctors and nurses, so we will still have Indian doctors, and Phillipine nurses applying and entering the country, just as previously. "Ah" you say, "but we would be rid of the Polish". well no as most that are here are filling jobs the average low paid English will not accept, such as seasonal agricultural work picking and packing fruit and veg, and other similar menial tasks, which a lot of the potential English workforce will not accept or even apply for.
The average objector will say that apart from that we will not have any more illegal immigrants attempting to enter the country, well no that is not the case. Firstly they are Syrian, or from African countries and Indians and Chinese cooking in takeaways, from places far outside the boundaries of the EU, so brexit will make no difference to them. Additionally brexit will make no difference to EU members just "walking into our country" as we never participated in the Schengen agreement which gives a EU resident the right of free passage across a border, and the fact we are surrounded by water, a natural barrier to easy entry(and also why the Schengen agreement was never signed by the UK). As such there will, as before, always be people attempting to enter the UK without authority.
Bearing the above points in mind, until the government of the UK devises a truly fair and efficient immigrant policy that is enforceable there is never going to be any considerable reduction in entry to this country, and this is a completely separate issue to brexit, and the anti EU camp are seizing on this to justify their ends in leaving the EU
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Hugh, another point, when we get back to the "50 mil indiginous" who is going to do all the additional work created by the UK leaving the EU and taking on rich new trade deals from outside the EU? All the poles will have returned to the EU........
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robertt8696
2 very good posts
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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