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Gisela. Sorry Ted couldn't remember her name. She was one of your top bosses and I remember you singing her praises.
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** EDITED - off thread **
This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 9/22/2016 10:19:00 AM.
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Perripower1 how would you as a member and a sore loser of the INs go about controlling migration from the EU currently standing at 300,00 per year that they know of ,this uncontrolled migration has and still is putting a massive strain on the NHS /HOUSING /SOCIAL SECURITY DSS.in the UK this system was put in place to service the population of the UK not the whole of the EUROPE the INs lost the referendum because they did not have a answer to this massive problem .And all you hear from the likes of you is that we should stay in the EUROPE and how they should have another referendum which I cannot understand why ,you lost the last one to the OUTs clearly because you could not address the problems and would defiantly loose a rerun without a solution .
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** EDITED - off thread **
This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 9/22/2016 10:18:00 AM.
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Please try and keep this thread 'serious' and avoid silly comments. Many people are following this thread even though they are not commenting actively. Thanks
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Leave are going to fix the issue of a what they call uncontrolled immigration from 300,000 to ten thousand. But. They have no ideas how to do this. After three months they have ruled out a points based system. Remain explained to them prior to the vote why this would not work. It is good it has only taken them six months to catch up to where Remain was in April 2016.
So the bottom line is no £350 million per week because they deceived the country and have now broken that promise.
No change to immigration because Leave do not know what to do and are now asking advice and help from Remain voters.
No new trade deals for years to come.
It seems to me that Brexit is exactly what we had before the vote. Best thing is just to ignore it and it will all just go away.
it looks like everyone is a winner. Remain lost the vote but nothing has happened and nothing is going to for the foreseeable future. Leave won the vote and can claim they have their freedom. Seems like a fair deal to me.
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Maybe a points-based system is something that should be reconsidered ....a You Gov survey showed some very interesting results (Remain vs leave) and exactly how complex it is. Nonetheless ,on most issues Remainers and Leavers aren't that far apart, although it might be very diffiuclt to translate into policy without some sort of 'reward-penalise' system'....
https://www.eyeonspain.com/blogs/macpoll/16575/poll-do-you-think-a-points-based-immigration-system-is-the-solution-to-the-uk-immigration-problem.aspx
May ruled out a points based system by saying Student visas were being abused because many people met the criteria and were were being let in automatically........ so... the problem is not with the points based system but the number of students going to the UK to study...because if they met the criteria, surely they are OK to enter the UK.
So how do you reduce the numbers? Toughen the criteria? Interview them and give them an exam? At the end of the day you are making it more 'selective' to reduce the numbers. The crux of the matter is that there must be some sort of criteria for immigration but should it just be for EU or for all other countries including the Commonwealth?
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A donde el corazón se inclina, el pie camina.
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Excellent piece on Brexit in the FT by Martin Wolf. Well worth a read.
https://www.ft.com/content/3328547a-7e3d-11e6-bc52-0c7211ef3198
His conclusion is a 'Hard Brexit is the likely outcome. A poorer but more independent Britain. The Brexit vote was a vote for economic decline. There is no escape from that for very good reasons as you will see if you read the entire aticle.The Brits became tired of being wealthy.A form of "conscious uncoupling" perhaps.. How long will it take before they become equally tired of poverty? Another fourty years methinks.
Why then is a hard Brexit the most likely outcome? My belief rests on the view that this UK government will not seek to reverse the result of the vote and that it will feel obliged to impose controls on immigration from the EU and to free itself from the bloc’s regulations overseen by its judicial processes.
Continued membership of the customs union or the single market, from outside the EU, would deprive the UK of legislative autonomy. The former would mean it could not adopt its own trade policy. The latter would mean accepting all regulations relating to the single market, without possessing any say on them, continuing with free movement of labour, and, probably, paying budget contributions. A country that has rejected membership is not going to accept so humiliating an alternative. It would be a state of dependence far worse than continued EU membership.
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 22/09/2016.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
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It's sad to witness ongoing misinformation and denial, especially when this appears to be a repeat of the very same tactic that so many were critical of during the campaign. This is not productive or helpful if people keep trying the same reinforcement technique over and over again in the hope that if they say it often enough they hope to convince both themselves and others of their "facts".
There appears to be a distinct failure to remain open minded by some, to demonstrate patience to review realities after the event. To remain purely defensive and unwilling to listen to others and endeavour to bully their way through this debate only alienates.
There were and still are many questions as to misinformation presented or being economical with the truth, the failure to provide trusted statistical data, the failure to be willing to look to best and worst case scenarios in terms of good independent intellectual economic analysis, the obstructive ploys used to inhibit access to data such that rational forward contingency planning be thwarted, the scaremongering tactics etc. All did a great diservice to the voting public.
But now to continue with that ploy and remain unwilling to comprehend or accept that all manner of analysis ( albeit belated!) is now proceeding behind the scenes for which the Govt are not prepared at this moment in time (or it appears legally obliged to divulge) in the interim period, only appears to be yet more denial and negative scaremongering speculation.
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If the UK had another referendum and the INs win this would lead to massive tax rise's in the UK if the present open door policy stayed as is ,this know borders control across the EU is bonkers if it is not addressed the NHS /DHS /PENSIONS will collapse ,and when it collapses according to the EU membership rule's this is the only time the EU will allow change this policy is absolutely crazy, the present system in the UK is for the population of the UK not the whole of the EU membership that has not paid a penny in to the system.
This message was last edited by windtalker on 22/09/2016.
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Windtalker ".... this know borders control.."
Sorry but to quote you, 'That is bonkers.' I do not know what you mean ?
This message was last edited by johnzx on 22/09/2016.
This message was last edited by johnzx on 22/09/2016.
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John x ( No Border control is bonkers) yes ?.
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Windtalker you are on the money. Don't let any of them in. They can go back to Aleppo or where ever they have come from, they were born there so that's their problem now ours. Once you let them in they will be pinching geraniums from my garden and wanting life saving healthcare for free on the NHS, our NHS.
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Windtalker you are on the money. Don't let any of them in. They can go back to Aleppo or where ever they have come from, they were born there so that's their problem now ours. Once you let them in they will be pinching geraniums from my garden and wanting life saving healthcare for free on the NHS, our NHS.
That would be the NHS in the Netherlands then would it? Your lack of human companssion staggers me. One day you might be a refugee yourself it can happen to any of us in the blink of an eye. These people need help and support not attitudes such as yours. That's the true message of Brexit. Pull up the drawbridge I'm all right Jack.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Don't know what the Netherlands has got to do with it. But some of the members on here are out supporters that are anti immigration, but they will never admit to being ''I'm all right Jacks'' will they.
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Mickyfinn please don't call the people of the UK bigot's racial or anything else ,the Majority has spoken with the OUTs winning .The good people of the UK voted ,Democracy has spoken our NHS /DSS/PENSIONS are at breaking point if the EU want the UK to look after everybody in the EUROPE then the EU should pay for it just like the UK pay the Spanish government £3,500 per year for every UK pensioner that lives in Spain the UK gets nothing from the Spanish government for a Spaniard that decides to retire in the UK the Tax payer's in the UK have to foot the bill DSS/NHS /HOUSING .so you can put the EU were the sun don't shine I am 60 years old I have working 45years ,I have now been told I will not qualify for a pension until i reach 67 at the moment it could be longer .
This message was last edited by windtalker on 22/09/2016.
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I did not use those words, you did. Lack of human compassion is not racial bigotry it's just lack of empathy for the human condition. The interesting factor for me is what influences within the society where you inhabit brings people to such extremes.
People are the same everywhere but it’s prejudice and hatred which fosters within people that causes conflict and barriers.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Please don't stereotype all Brexiteers as being without human compassion with regard to refugees. This is far more complex and not so black and white as you portray Mickeyfinn, which has been pointed out on several occasions.
It's a shame that critique is not being adequately discussed in terms of the EU bureaucrats who through their failure to address the realities, failure to adequately forward plan, failure to respond and make provision / ensure they had effective security systems in place to deter those with malintent , and where required to recognise the need for greater flexibility in the system to put in place controls on economic migrants in the form of workable border controls etc instead of blind dogged intransigence, that this has been allowed to come to crisis point in the first place.
These failures have tragically and ironically allowed division and conflict to foster and in that process have placed tolerance and integration that we in the UK prided ourselves on under immense stress.
IMHO It's a travesty and begs many questions of a system that can impact so negatively on member states and it's citizens.
This message was last edited by ads on 22/09/2016.
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Windtalker.
You do realise that the reason Spain pays far less to the UK than the other way around is because of the inefficiency in the UK system, not the EU? Every country in the EU can charge the home country for medical costs incurred. Most countries are efficient at doing this and, if you have ever used the Spanish system, you will note that they take details of the EHIC or, if you are a pensioner, will claim from the UK government. In UK they don't even require a EHIC and will treat anyone without charge (even though they keep promising to do so) and, when I worked in Primary Care, the local NHS trust had no system in place for charging EU citizens for the care they received.
Still, blaming the EU for faults because the UK don't follow or apply the rules seems the norm. Registering on the EU citizens list? Not in UK. Proving you have sufficient funds to support yourself? Not in UK. Proving you have sufficient medical cover? Not in UK. Proving you have housing and won't be a burden on the social welfare system? Not in UK.
All the others manage it but it seems too difficult for the UK to do it. And if you think anything will change after UK leaves the EU then you really do live in cloud cuckoo land. Unless a sudden burst of efficiency hits the NHS then nothing will change at all.
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