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hughjardon.
What happened in history way back has no bearing on what is, or might happen now concerning Spain to throw out the Brits from Gib or mainland Spain, which wont ever happen, civilised nations have come a bit further then this, talk of war is about as stupid as it gets, the MP, or what ever he is now that mentioned this should be sectioned.
I presume the 200 losing jobs is the crisps people, which could be known as junk food, which is also on the increase as snacks, maybe this 200 going is down to machines with one new machine doing the work of 200 people, progress cannot be stopped.
Who's worried about life in Spain, folk moved to Spain before the EU and will do so after, life in Spain for ex-pats is better then the current life in the UK, the UK is quickly tearing itself apart and I don't mean with talk of different sections.
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Baz, by and large i agree with your post with the exception of your comment, " civilised nations have come a bit further then this, talk of war is about as stupid as it gets,"
As stupid as it gets? this very same thing happened with Margaret Thatcher and the Falklands. Argentina had the idea that civilized nations would not "resort to war" and look what happened, a dispute that still exists today. The dispute about Gibraltar has been going on since 1713, a dispute that has lasted 300 years!
There might not be a war in the case of Gibraltar, but expect plenty of military might to suddenly be positioned on the rock by the British very soon. I have worked for someone who has had dealings with countries worldwide at government level, and by my experience , politicians of all countries can be little better than spoilt children. There is a good possibility that this dispute will escalate unless all parties see sense.
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The BBC news has just reported the border crossing with Gibraltar as an "internal border crossing" this is not the case as Spain do not recognise the soverignty of the UK over Gibraltar, so the Spanish treat it as an external border crossing into the EU with associated searches and inspections they deem part of such a border crossing. These checks are relaxed in manner as they realise theres not much legally crossing the border other than usual tourist and economic users.
The Spanish foreign minister was reported as being amazed with the reaction of the UK in relation to the Spanish stance. And all because the EU has included by name Gibraltar in the Brexit negotiations. And Gibraltar is not part of the EU.
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Done the Spain thing Happier in the UK
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I picked up on that too Robert. Why didn't the BBC correct this?
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Best wishes, Brian
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Don't take the bait, perhaps....?
We all need to stay focused on achieving positive mutually beneficial outcomes instead of wasting time and effort responding to such mischief making ploys.
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Ads, you are right i agree, shame on the BBC
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Yes, let´s work for the maintenance of good relationships between our countries. So sad, politics can create problems that does not exist among ordinary people.
I live in Algeciras, Campo de Gibraltar, and think that the mutual interation between the two nations ( whatever the UK belongs to the EU or not) is much more positive and wanted by ordinary people than any dispute.
Let´s be wiser than that!
I am very sad!
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Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA
Lawyer
Director www.costaluzlawyers.es
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Sadly Maria, I think many citizens would agree with you.
It does seem though that politicians in many guises appear to have different agenda and are not always listening to the people.
Why on earth should the question of Gibralter be brought into negotiations about Brexit.
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Maria i agree, ordinary people do not have or make the problems politicians and world leaders create. You are right, the world has moved on from the wars and troubles of the past, but governments still like to show strength, even if it makes trouble for the people. As you say, very sad.
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I guess the answer may be that if it's working right now and people are happy, then leave it alone.
Trying to show strength can sometimes show weakness Maria.
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Best wishes, Brian
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Why on earth should the question of Gibralter be brought into negotiations about Brexit.
No reason at all. It's just posturing macho politicians.
Perhaps this discussion belongs on a non Brexit thread?
It is interesteing to note that:
Gibralter has been under British admisnistration longer than the period from the re-conquest to 1713.
Gibralter was legally ceeded to the UK in the Treaty of Utrecht unlike the Spanish posessions in N Africa.
Britain would in fact be happy for Gibralter to be part of Spain if the population of Gibralter agreed.
The present dispute started in the 60's when Franco closed the border.
When Spain became democratic they continued to mess the people of the rock around and still do so. Extremely short sighted. Had they been nice, democratic and offerred a long term solution they might have been 30 years into a 50 year transfer by now.
The solution to this problem is in the hands of Spain and the people of the Rock. Brtain is just stuck with it's history.
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Tteedd, Britain is not stuck with Gibraltars history at all. If Britain was a country with low morals and standards it could simply withdraw from overseeing the rock and just leave Gibraltarians to their own fate. As it stands the UK is not, and has a good record of treatment to people, especially people that are afforded protection by government, and so the UK will afford that protection to Gibraltar until the people of Gibraltar decide otherwise.
It is the UK's stance in matters such as this that will cause many problems during Brexit, as the representatives of the UK will stand for a fair deal, not just for the UK, but for EU-UK relations in the future.
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The UK s greatest strength but possibly its greatest weakness,
Attempting to be fair and moral to all.
Lets face it, the UK was one of the few countries who followed EU directives to the letter.
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Hugh, you have raised a very good point, that of the UK following EU directives to the letter. It is well known that other EU countries do not conform to directives, with the attitude that " we will deal with it when we need to" and so the cost is negligable for them. Perhaps this is why the EU works for other member countries but not for the UK?
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That's because for many of the Southern Countries, rules are for someone else.
What the EU has done for many is provide grants and subsidies, many of which have been wasted.
What is has not done effectively is improve investment and jobs for its citizens.
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'Britain is not stuck with Gibraltars history at all.'
That is not what I said.
I said: "Britain is stuck with it's history". ie Britains history.
I never indicated in any way whatsoever that Britain did not or should not meet it's obligations.
I was indicating that we might have been in a better place if Spain had started to behave reasonably after it became a democracy. Which is what the people of Gibralter were hoping for when I was there.
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I find whenever i go to Gibralter most residents seem to be quite happy with their Spanish neighbours, it is the Spanish that are not happy with the situation, the UK extending assistance to Gibraltar. If the Spanish Government accepted this and got on with life, the Gibraltans would be far more accomodating to Spain, and most likely Spain would return the attitude. If that happened maybe the British rule would become more of a symbolic status, and life would just go on ,peacefully, and to the benefit of all.
Much the same as the UK leaving the EU really.
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It would be NICE if some of you could SPELL GIBRALTAR properly
NOW a SPANISH FRIGATE is making PROVOCATIVE movements in the STRAIT
IVE said it all ALONG you cannot TRUST the SPANIARDS they have always been JEALOUS of ENGLAND it goes back to CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS you see
Love Hugh xx
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Done the Spain thing Happier in the UK
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Hughjardon. May know lots about provocative movements maybe?
Whats going on Hugh?
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Best wishes, Brian
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