| The Comments |
There are no winners in these things, one side might lose more than the other and if that is the end game strategy we are playing out then we are mad as hatters. Lawyers and administrators benefit. The estimated cost for Whitehall alone for Brexit admin is expected to be nearly £500,0000,000 to 2020.
This is really bad news for young working families; Universal Credit taper rate is being cut from 65% to 63%. Without the Brexit admin costs it was going to be cut to 60%. That means £300 less for a working family on a low/modest income of £22,000 per year. What will Pensioners do in 2020 when it is their turn to pay a piece of Brexit admin?
Malta will be a loser. But for those of you who say, "get behind the country of your birth no matter what decisions it makes" you will be losers as well unless we stop this Hard Brexit madness now.
In the face of all the things that are bad that are happening with Brexit and there are many, there remain those kamakazi's who will try to tell you things are better because of Brexit.
The pound is down because of Brexit. Some here are hopelessly clutching at straws and being economical with the truth.
Fact from last year to today. Pound is 17.37% lower against the Euro; 17.64% lower against the USD; 24.27% lower against the Yen; 18.35% lower against Norway; 19.10% lower against Russia; 17.29% lower against South Africa; 18.32% lower against Swiss Francs; 16.45% lower against Canada;
From six months ago to today. It is down...the numbers are 10.74%; 15.24%; 13.25%; 12.71%; 16.7%; 23.21%; 13.39%; 12.24%
From three months ago to today the numbers are. +0.5%; - 5.59%; -5.81%; -1.59%; -6.18%; -5.70%; -1.10%; -1.32%
Those are interbank trading rates right now that I can see on my screen. Not made up tourist rtes. Those are the real rates that business (big ans smaller), governments, pension funds, the NHS, Universities, The Military Forces are facing and paying right now.
The trend for the pound is still down. It has slowed and there has been some improvement which is caused by long term interest rates rising. They are up 0.75 percentage points (thats a 68% increase) since August and still rising.
Pricing at the shops are going up. Please anyone tell me one good thing that has happened since the vote that isn't caused by increased immigration into the UK?
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Brexit has opened eyes to all manner of citizen concerns both in the EU and UK failings, and from this we can hopefully move forward to regain better control, review the need for greater flexibility and fair workable strategies to better respond to the many changes, but hopefully in that process we can make our politicians and EU officials more accountable, less intransigent to reform, and start to listen to citizen's voices and take heed of their genuine concerns.
Brexit has without doubt brought essential attention to the failures of not only UK politicians and EU officialdom, but also what happens when the power of financial institutions and global corporations remain unchecked and unaccountable, where the lack of "return/ financial benefit" to member states citizens results in a growing divide that has the power to destroy cohesion, where citizens needs become lost in the call for profit and growth without due consideration or reflection ( flexibility ) to reassess the impacts and redress the imbalances, but within realistic timeframes using well considered strategies that don't exacerbate the problems.
IMHO, the strive for mutually beneficial solutions that place far greater emphasis on citizen's needs, is well overdue.
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Sums it up perfectly Ads.
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The pound is down because of Brexit.
Despite all your waffle you cannot prove that the pound is down because of Bexit. Obviously the massive fluctuation immediately after the vote was caused by traders reactions to Brexit. But what else would you expect? Most were not even trading when we left the snake, vIrtually none were trading when we joined the EU and most were remainers and infected by gloom.
I agree that the pound has done poorly against the dollar but we are leaving the EU not the USA. The fact remains that the pound has been falling steadily since the last round of Quantitive Easing. In any other period the fall in the pound would have been expected if the government printed money.
You cannot deny that the pound dropped steadily between November and March and that with no Brexit traders would have anticipated further drops before stabilisation.
What worries me more than anything else is the mass of remoaners who spend all their time talking down the currency and the economy. All the economic indicators have done better than predicted since June, So there is plenty of good news if you want to see it but there is none so blind as those who do not want to see.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 25/11/2016.
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Does that mean that Brexit is a philosophical exercise?
A citizen's revolt?
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Wow!!! The pound isn't down because of Brexit? ** EDITED - Against forum rules **
This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 11/25/2016 6:54:00 PM.
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Do my eyes deceive me or do your figures below prove things are getting better for us every 3 months?
Fact from last year to today. Pound is 17.37% lower against the Euro; 17.64% lower against the USD; 24.27% lower against the Yen; 18.35% lower against Norway; 19.10% lower against Russia; 17.29% lower against South Africa; 18.32% lower against Swiss Francs; 16.45% lower against Canada;
From six months ago to today. It is down...the numbers are 10.74%; 15.24%; 13.25%; 12.71%; 16.7%; 23.21%; 13.39%; 12.24%
From three months ago to today the numbers are. +0.5%; - 5.59%; -5.81%; -1.59%; -6.18%; -5.70%; -1.10%; -1.32%
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"The EU will go from strength to strength without Britain" The only strength the EU has is to bully countries into doing what they tell them. The EU is on its knees, almost but not quite finished. The sooner the better, then all the citizens of all the EU countries can claim back their freedom instead of working for a dictatorship.
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The Euro finished on a low again this week, largely due to political uncertainty surrounding Europe and the damaging effect it could have on future financial stability. Reaching a low of 1.0517 versus USD on Wednesday it was the weakest level for the Euro for 12 months. It was also the Euro’s weakest level versus GBP for two months. To offer some conviction French and German PMI figures for services and manufacturing sectors were broadly in line with forecasts.
Maybe the Euro is going down because of Brexit? Oh no it can't be, because we all know that the EU is fantastic and the answer to everyones prayers - not.....
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The Euro is weak because of uncertainty over the Italian referendum and Italy's weak banks. The economic news is good for the Eurozone. Spain especially is recording the highest growth figures since the recession.
You are deluded if you believe the EU is finished. What evidence points to that. It's total rubbish and wishful thinking on your part.
Brexit will change the EU but only in the sense that ads wishes and I agree there is scope for it. However in a free market of 500 million and the industrial muscle of Germany the EU will prosper and thrieve. It's the UK trying to make it on it's own is the world of globaliisation without free trade treaties you should be worrying about. But of course you believe hook line and sinker the cobblers uttered by your friends in the Brexit camp. Well remember truth will out and long after the rhetoric has died, I hope they that voted to leave will hold them to account and hang them up to dry.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Don't worry Mickyfinn, one day you, me and a few others on here will be recognised for the leading lights than shone the way during the Brexit darkness.
This message was last edited by perrypower1 on 25/11/2016.
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The EU countries are: Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Republic of Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden and the UK.
Micky said.....However in a free market of 500 million and the industrial muscle of Germany the EU will prosper and thrieve.
Now take out the UK as one main contributor, another Germany also France......Are the others takers, or contributors, because I don't know how many are hangers on, if the rest are, where is the free market of 500 million?
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Free Market - How can it be free if you have to pay to join? Sounds like going to a "free" gym and when you get there they ask you for 100 quid to be a member.
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The Turk's want to join the EU as full partner's , all 70 million of them want to be European just like Mickfinn and Perrypower1 and if the EU doesn't listen to the Turk's and let them join they will send all the Sirin refugees over to Europe for them sort the out ,this is something that the UK and the Out camp was aware of pre Brexit and it will happen sooner or later .either way. This message was last edited by windtalker on 25/11/2016.
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Europe big place many people. Little Britain small island few people. You work out who needs who the most. 
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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I worked it out long time ago ,that is why I voted for OUT in the referendum and Democracy won the day.
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Europe big place many people. Little Britain small island few people. You work out who needs who the most
Europe needs the UK because of what it contributes, take that out and then who supports who, size doesn't matter, thats why the UK has a high contribution, rich country, the likes of the others take take take, won't be able to when the UK leaves. They are running scared of us leaving.
This message was last edited by baz1946 on 25/11/2016.
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Don't worry Mickyfinn, one day you, me and
Micky will be remembered for ernestly putting his point of view............................
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Baz,
We should all be running scared. There are not going to be any winners. They loose our contribution and our economy contracts. It costs them £180 million per week (£350 million less all the things that we get back) and the projections are we loose £225 million per week up to 2018 and then £575 million per week to 2020 and then £1.25 billion per week forever unless we can do trade deals with EU and others.
** EDITED - Against forum rules - Inciting **
This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 11/25/2016 7:19:00 PM.
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If as suggested these tactics are employed without any resolve to find mutually beneficial solutions, then what does this say about the system and those managing negotiations?
Any system that relies upon bullying and threatening as a means to force a member state into remaining and demonstrates intransigence to listen and respond to its citizens genuine concerns, not just in the UK but also other member states, hardly deserves defending does it?
If these tactics are deployed ( and this is not a foregone conclusion), this would only lead to further disillusionment and distrust and could result in citizens taking a far more protectionist stance and play into the hands of right/ left wing radicals. Surely that's not in anyone's intetests?
The only CIVILISED way forward is to seek out mutually beneficial solutions and start to pay heed to EU citizens concerns in the remaining member states post Brexit and learn from mistakes ( UK Govt and EU alike).
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