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ads.
I did not respond to your post regarding the proposed reforms because I consider them eminently sensible. Although the EU may seem unwieldy at time reform does actually take place that benefits everyone, albeit dropping slow.
I note these reforms received similar support in the parliamentary vote. I don’t know why you want to rehash them on here especially since the UK is not going to play any part in the future construction of the EU.
I feel that European Union without Britain is a very sad conclusion to a bold political and economic project which benefited Britain enormously. Only time will tell if a majority of British people feel the same. I wonder how long it will be before we see a resurgence of liberal democratic support in the UK because it seems to me the country is heading in the opposite direction. Just the swing of the pendulum perhaps but in my view leaving the EU is a road to nowhere.
I read somewhere today that trying to negotiate an advantageous exit from the EU is a bit like trying to find a more competitive electricity provider when the power has been already disconnected. Sums up the situation perfectly.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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The current UK government is not listening
Pretty sure it is!
Why should it be any surprise that the UK public would want to behave decently? You have no point PP.
Our side has said it wants to confirm the status of EU nationals working in the UK. It is the EU that will not confirm it until the negociations.
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Every pole that I read pre Brexit including all the bookmakers claimed that the UK was in favour of staying in the EU and the UK as you know voted OUT .....so I would not take to much notice in so called pole's claiming 80% or so of the population voted this way or that way at the end of the day the people behind the pole will alter the outcome in favor of what they want to hear .The only pole that matters is the Referendum ,politician's were warned by the media not to manipulate the outcome of the Referendum and to let Democracy speak .well Democracy did speak but certain politicians did not like what they heard and are still trying to manipulate the Democratic outcome in favor of the minority.
This message was last edited by windtalker on 19/02/2017.
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Tteedd
Your comment "our side" sums up a lit and shows the deep divisions in the uk now
It is not a criticism of you or those who voted to leave but simply what we have become
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Mickeyfinn,
Re EU reform and my posting highlighting this EU debate and recent Parliamentary vote, this is nothing to do with "rehashing" as you put it, it is very relevant when you consider the timing to such reform and the ongoing negotiations.
I would be grateful therefore if you could address the question, does this reform imply that the EU Parliament will be more willing to find mutually beneficial outcomes than the intransigent stance adopted by the current EU Commission? ( Hence my genuine query as to the timing of this reform).
There are already voices calling for a more considered approach with suggestion NOT to punish Britain....Wolfgang Schaueble the German Finance Minister was just quoted as saying " We have to find reasonable rules here with Britain... the EU should offer Britain a reasonable Brexit deal because financial services offered by the City of London benefit Europe as a whole... London's financial centre serves the whole European economy so it is preferable to keep Britain close to us. We don't want to punish the British for their decision".
Surely you would be content with such an improved stance, or are you unwilling to consider a more optimistic and considered approach?
Your observation
"I read somewhere today that trying to negotiate an advantageous exit from the EU is a bit like trying to find a more competitive electricity provider when the power has been already disconnected. Sums up the situation perfectly."
almost implies that you would be content with a negative outcome. Why are you not seeking mutually beneficial outcomes?
This message was last edited by ads on 19/02/2017.
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.......................... Why are you not seeking mutually beneficial outcomes?
If you read my posts today you will see that's what I do believe will happen but only on the midnight hour.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Sorry Mickeyfinn, your postings dont imply that at all, they appear to imply just the opposite as though it's all a foregone negative conclusion, whereas other soundings are moving towards a more realistic and hopefully measured approach in order to reach what everyone hopes will be a mutually beneficial outcome.
This is all the more reason to recognise why those with divisive political intent, those who tend towards ideological extremes, without striving for a more balanced and optimistic outcome post Brexit (to the benefit of all), have the potential to stoke up unnecessary fear and unrest during this sensitive upcoming negotiating period.
This message was last edited by ads on 19/02/2017.
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The Telegraph printed a story yesterday about the house of Lord's peers that are attempting to overturn the Brexit vote ,the likes of Neil Kinnock and Peter Mandilson and approximately 20 others are getting extremely large pension and other payment's that come to over £10 million per year paid to them Directly from the EU ....Pro Brexit peer's have brought this to lite and the peer's in question will be forced to express their financial interest in the EU before before they are allowed to vote (.when was the last time you heard of a Turkey vote for Christmas.).
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As background to this, here’s an article exposing the pension concerns back in April 2014
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/27/meps-final-payoff-157000
in which it quoted….
Jonathan Isaby, chief executive of the TaxPayers' Alliance, heaped criticism on the package. He said: "British taxpayers will be staggered at the level of these golden goodbyes. MEPs who either voluntarily step down or are deselected are in no way comparable to somebody being made redundant, because they are affectively on a five-year fixed term contract, subject to renewal by the the electorate.
This is yet another example of public sector largesse which is completely unnecessary and unaffordable. The system urgently needs to be reformed."
Is this correct or has some form of reform occurred in the interim period?
This message was last edited by ads on 19/02/2017.
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"our side" sums up a lit and shows the deep divisions in the uk
lit ??
'our side' is the UK. Unity not division. We would all wish to behave decently.
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Neil Kinnock and Peter Mandilson
And both of whom thought that the Lords was an anacronism when in the commons.
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Tteedd
Apologies I misread your comment
However even brexit it is not about sides or us and them
In my experience that sort of attitude makes for bad feelings jealousy and the human race's ability for stupidity and fighting
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Well let's all pray that the Lords toss this back to HoP for amendment. Two are urgently needed. Right to remain and meaningful vote. Anything less than that will be a betrayal of HoL to the people of the U.K.
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ads - This is all the more reason to recognise why those with divisive political intent, those who tend towards ideological extremes, without striving for a more balanced and optimistic outcome post Brexit (to the benefit of all), have the potential to stoke up unnecessary fear and unrest during this sensitive upcoming negotiating period.
Yes that all sounds like populism to me. Marine le Pen, Beppe Grillo and the disgusting Geert Wilders. They want to wreck the established order but have not one single idea, suggestion or idea for Europe’s political or social problems.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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** EDITED **
This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 2/20/2017 9:46:00 AM.
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Let's hope the House of Lords try to block Brexit. Then we can get rid of those overpaid holier than thou twits and have elected representation, rather than a bunch of cronies, some who got there by kissing a**e..
"Peter Mandelson and others in Labour who are trying to frustrate the will of the British people need to think how they can contribute to making Britain a success post-Brexit"
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jarvi, if you pick the bones of your thread out , could you elaborate how you think elected representation is likely to emerge from blocking Brexit?
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There is hypocrisy and denial of responsibility which needs to be recognised here by the EU bureacrats if lessons are to be learned, Mickeyfinn. The political extremes in Europe have grown from a distinct failure to heed citizen concerns and a marked deficit of ongoing assessment, readjustment, and forward planning.
This message was last edited by ads on 20/02/2017.
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By scrapping the house of lords.
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ads -There is hypocrisy and denial of responsibility which needs to be recognised here by the EU bureacrats
I don’t agree. The rise of populism and discontent with the established order is a social phenomenon directly related to people’s expectations being out of sync with what is actually possible in our society for most ordinary people.
The politics of envy also plays a part as we see in these threads. Individuals who have dedicated their lives to public service are derided and scorned for being well rewarded.
There are established causes for it. Excessive advertising, the recession, media blitz on the lives of celebrities and the misguided human instinct to compare themselves with the lives of others.
That leads to an illusory belief that populist politicians have the ability to deliver what they cannot have under the prevailing social order. They are false prophets doomed to failure because they lack any substantive political vision or ideas.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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