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robert8696
Many UK expats do not do this in Spain, and live under the radar, so its no good bleating about the UK not enforcing the regulations
I agree, there are lots of Brits that do that, our hugh jardon being one and boasting about it at the same time. However, they don't claim benefits, housing, child allowances or healthcare from the Spanish as it wouldn't be allowed. That many of them still claim benefits from UK (JSA, pension credits, WFA and so on) is a bind on UK, not Spain. Without having the checks in place, UK is paying for those who simply give an address, show an electric bill and, bingo, everything available to them. My point was that this could be stopped if UK followed the EU rules which, for some reason unbeknown to me, they don't.
And some people on here need to make their minds up on how they refer to the nasty, foreign people living in UK. They are either job-stealing foreigners or benefit milking foreigners. Surely they can't be both?
And it's no good asking anyone who should know. When the Treasury Minister was asked by a Labour MP how much was paid to EU citizens in benefits the reply came back "That information is not available". Really joined up government, I must say.
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I for one would not be happy that the government used taxpayers money for something they might lose
The Civil service spends much of its time planning for various contigencies either directed by or for ministers, perhaps we should sack them all and save money?
The armed forces spends a lot of time exercising against various contingencies, perhaps...............
Failing to plan can lead shambles and failure as we saw in Iraq and Afganistan.
It was not neccessary that whole new departments be set up, but just being able to advise the government on the route and difficulties ahead just might have been useful and put the UK on the front foot?
It seems we had to start with a clean sheet for something that the government had made possible (and I would say even likely) once they had decided on a referendum.
But then again if Cameron had asked for some research he might have realised the possiblity of an out vote was higher than he anticipated and shelved the whole idea.
In one way it was a massive success for him, his party has not been so united for years.
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tteedd, I feel that quite apart from researching Brexit, there are far too many Civil Servants, many recruited during Tony Blairs occupation of the Masters Seat, and in my opinion recruited to minimise his and his cronies workload, and unfortunately David Cameron, and his crony Nick Clegg did not give them the boot when they took over, so all sides are as bad as each other.
As for the Armed Forces excercising, i think defence of the realm and keeping the force up to usable standards can only be money well spent. You say failure to plan can lead to shambles and failure as seen in Iraq and Afganistan, but Saddam was toppled (the desired result) and the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden were overcome (desired result), something even the might of the massive force of the Russian Red army couldnt achieve. The fact it hasnt actually made any real difference on the world stage is incidental, and another matter for debate.
I feel a lot of administration in the UK could be reduced, or even eliminated totally, and standards would still be maintained, saving probably billions in the process.A typical example is fire most of the NHS administrators and bring back Matron on the wards for general decisions, and the instant money there would be a colossal amount saved, but thats another subject entirely......
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Mariedav,
You observed "And some people on here need to make their minds up on how they refer to the nasty, foreign people living in UK. They are either job-stealing foreigners or benefit milking foreigners. Surely they can't be both?"
Who has said "foreign people" are nasty, job-stealing, benefit milking?
Also you are wrong as it was reported "Cameron initially called for the emergency brake in place for 13 years, but the Visegrád group of four central European countries (Poland, Hungary, Slovakia and the Czech Republic) arrived at the summit with a starting bid of five years. In the end the Council settled on seven - a compromise the British will not be unhappy with."
This message was last edited by ads on 01/03/2017.
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but thats another subject entirely......
Robert
I agree whole heartedly with much of what you say. Some of it could be myself speaking. But the Army did overextend itself in both Iraq and Afganistan and the planning for running Iraq after victory appeared non existant. Not sure if it was the politicians or the generals at fault but we sure as hell were not taking any notice of things learnt in anti insurgency operations in Malaysia, Aden and other theatres. A little planning both for then and for the aftermath of the referendum might have gone a long way.
As for the NHS the argument is usually based on emotion rather than common sense, but as you say 'thats another subject entirely......'
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tteedd, My opinion of Iraq and Afghanistan , and our involvement is that it was supposedly done in the UK's best interests in stopping terrorism, and that all the politicians did it wrong. If all those practising army squaddies had been put on the airports, and seaports, and coastal patrols, fully armed to assist the law enforcement of this country, i am sure there would be far less terrorists entering this country as more thorough checks would be made, there would also be less illegal entry of the country. At the same time the army would be getting real life experience of how to deal with people properly and diplomatically. I feel sure that there would be less terrorists attempting to gain entry to the UK, and that the UK would be a far safer place to live too. Finally, if there had been no forces in Iraq and Afghanistan, look how much we would have saved over the last few years, more than enough with savings on top, to finance a true border deterrent, all without invading at great cost other countries worldwide.
For the disbelievers who say that the concept is horrific as it would make our country of occupation, i am sure many would prefer the safety and security to the horrors of terrorism, plus we could all sleep safely at night.
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Anyone care to explain what any of this has to do with UK leaving the EU?
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The majority of European doctors working in the UK are considering leaving the country because of Brexit, a survey by the General Medical Council (GMC) has found. Thousands could leave in the next two years, plunging the NHS into a fresh staffing crisis.
The doctors' disciplinary body surveyed 2,115 doctors from the European Economic Area (EEA), comprising the EU nations plus Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein, and found that 1,171 - 55 per cent - were thinking of leaving the UK, with the Brexit vote "a factor in their considerations".
The GMC said two common themes emerged: the emotional impact of Brexit - with many doctors saying they felt unwanted and demoralised - and uncertainty about their future residence status.
Independent 1st March
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 01/03/2017.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Mickyfinn why aren't these Doctors working in their own Country ........ Why are they working in the NHS UK especially the Spanish one's isn't the the Spanish health service supposed to be the best in the EU.l must have read the wrong fact's that the UK NHS pays these EU Doctors more than double what they would earn in the EU .more fake news from you think about it.
This message was last edited by windtalker on 01/03/2017.
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Honestly now Mickyfinn, you really believe this, NHS staff have always done this sort of thing, coming and going, to and fro, but now they have Brexit to use as an excuse, if it wasn't Brexit it would have been the weather, wages, working conditions and anything thing else.
Your picture shows One Brit who as we all know might go to Australia / America / Canada anyway for better wages, for instance, One Irish who as we all know the NHS has nearly been run by the Irish for years, One German 50/50 with him might have come here for the experience of our NHS and would have gone back whatever, three Spanish who no doubt came here for the money knowing full well they might not get back in Spain anything like they get here, One Greek chap who wants to go back to a broken country, doubtful to say the least. Apart from the Brit and Irish the others just might have woken up after a couple of years to the very high cost of living here as well.
Apart from the Irish and Brit the others have come for many reasons, to brush up on English due to it being world wide spoken is one, and no getting away from the fact that our NHS has a fantanstic reputation for training and such like.
doctors saying they felt unwanted and demoralised...This is the NHS at the moment and widely reported by the media, truth is it has been the case for a good few years, and for the Brits, even before this Brexit thing was mentioned.
How many born here British people also want out, of course all down to the brexit.
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with many doctors saying they felt unwanted and demoralised - and uncertainty about their future residence status.
Total propaganda
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Do you honestly think that the sector of workers most required and valued to sustain the NHS would not be reviewed in that light by the UK Govt and UK citizens, Mickeyfinn?
Reinforcing fear and division without reviewing the wider picture and ongoing reforms in as timely a fashion as is possible, plus intent to regain control through hopefully fair upcoming negotiation with good intent to achieve mutually beneficial outcomes, sadly speaks reams.
Bringing control back to the UK through negotiation and ability to readdress a more realistic approach to irregular migration trends ( recognising all the knock on effects) and in that process regain a balance to the benefit of all, whilst agreeing future trading arrangements will hopefully lead to greater cohesion, not less.
If negotiations to achieve mutually beneficial outcomes fail however it certainly won't be for the want of trying.
In the interim those espousing fear by stoking up division and misinterpreting good intent to achieve balanced and fair mutually beneficial solutions through rational and honest analysis will have much to answer for.
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Maybe these mercenary wage chasing Doctors have realised that when the UK stops the mass migration from the EU they will no longer be required by the UK NHS ....at the moment the UK Taxpayers have got to pay for NHS treatment for every man women and child in the EU for free.think about.
This message was last edited by windtalker on 01/03/2017.
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baz - Honestly now Mickyfinn, you really believe this,
I'm just the messenger passing on the information. I have no idea if it's true or not. If the survey was done honestly and in good faith then it's an indication of discontent among these medical professionals.
It's also a reason why there is an urgent political need to guarantee the position of EU citizens in the UK
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Why has the UK authorities for decades refused to claim back all its costs under the EHIC system?.
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Elsie if you read up on NHS claiming back cost from EU countries ,the UK government comes up against a brick wall of countries from the EU that will not pay for EHIC treatments for their citizens basically because they cannot afford to pay ........some of the treatments given to EU citizens in the UK come to hundred's of thousands pounds usually for treatment that is not available in their countries of origin.
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The EHIC is for emergency treatement only. If the NHS is treating conditions outside that restriction then it's a mangement failure on the part of the service.
No hospital in France will treat non-emergency conditions with just a EHIC
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Thank you windtalker, you are the first person to give an answer on a question I have asked many times.
So the EHIC system has just been an EU nonsense. UK pay others do not. I suppose another reason for BREXIT.
Well mickyfinn, lets go a stage further. Why does our NHS (supposedly always in crisis} treat any Tom, Dick and Harry for non emergency conditions for FREE. If that is actually a true fact.
This message was last edited by Elsietanner on 01/03/2017.
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Mickyfinn define treatment out of the EHIC...... your talking crap any EU citizens no matter what treatment they require will get treatment for free on the NHS initially they will be attended to at the A&E any prolonged further treatment will be dealt with a hospital admission.that runs up a massive bill that their countries of origin will not pay .
This message was last edited by windtalker on 01/03/2017.
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** EDITED - inciting **
This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 3/1/2017 4:42:00 PM.
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