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I spoke to a 83 year gent the other day he said he was going to vote in he said since we have been in the EU the fruit has been nicer no joking I told I was voting for out and the reasons why I then said to him do you really think we won't be able to get any fruit if we come out of the EU what an absolute Pratt.
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I tell you this WT, if voting out prohibited the UK from competing in the Eurovision Song Contest and our media from televising it, then I'm voting for OUT.  
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I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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The only thing that you lot that live in spain permanently are concerned about is health care from the Spanish government (,that the U K tax pays for infull) nothing else you could give a monkeys about what is happening here in the UK ,the people of the UK that have been paying into the government pension fund are been told that the age of claiming a pension is getting higher every year the government are trying to convince people that we are living longer that is absolute rubbish ,then please explain to me why a foriner from the EU can come in to the UK that has not paid a penny in to the system can claim a pension this is a EU regulations the government of any EU state must give a foriner from another part of the EU the same as their own citizens ,I also spoke what I thought was a Australian that is living in the UK that was 67 years old when I asked him why he was living here he said he is British and emigrated to Australia when he was 20 ,he said the cost of living in Australia was high so be come back to the UK to retire only to discover that he can claim a full UK pension and has not paid a penny in to the system this is the real reason people like myself are being told they have to work longer I am 60 at the moment and eligible for my pension when I am 67 but have been told this could change to 70 by the time I get their.
This message was last edited by windtalker on 09/03/2016.
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I think we have been round and round on this one - in order to get a UK pension (there is no government pension fund) you will have to have 35 years of NI paid into the system for the full amount. You will need 10 years to get anything. Even the current number of years for the full pension is 30 years. This means that any 'Johnny foreigner' needs the same NI contribution.
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Roly2 so how can couple of 67 year old Bulgarians that come into the UK with not a pot to take a piss in get by in the UK bearing in mind that their is only one pot of gold that the government has to pay out of call it what you like it is social security you are claiming.
This message was last edited by windtalker on 09/03/2016.
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Well that is a problem for the benefit system - which in my opinion needs a major overhaul, rather than fiddling around the edges. It is the incredibly stupid in work benefits system set up by the last government combined with outdated universal benefits such as child benefits. Also, I am guessing your 67 year old Bulgarians are living off undeclared cash in hand etc etc - much like a lot of Brits do in Spain, or any where else. And while we are on, we should overhaul the NHS and get rid of the obsession that it has to be free for all at the point of care. Well, no, it really doesn't have to be, and we actually need a NHS which is sustainable. Just my opinion.
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Roly2 the 2 67 year old Bulgarians that arrived in the UK we not a pot to take a piss in are living in a counce house on state benefits.
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Yes just send them all here to claim their 'rights', if we object then we are eurosceptics, as much as I disliked Thatcher she would have sorted this out double quick. Blair gave our rights away, Brown gave our gold reserves away, Brussels are in charge of our borders, and we used to be scared of the Soviets, our enemies are far closer. Cameron is not going to rock the boat, Corbyn would have the national anthem replaced by The Red Flag if he thought that he could get away with it, Boris is our only hope, thank god that I'm 68 and not 28.
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I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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That's what I said - living on state benefits - but not a state pension. If the UK had a more robust system with only a state pension and benefits to support those who really cannot work, instead of all of this in work benefit nonsense - or child benefit nonsense, or top up nonsense, then your Bulgarians would not be able to access/abuse these benefits. And it would not be discrimination because everyone would be treated equally. And you could set it up so that you get nothing until you have paid a certain amount in. It is not rocket science. But look at the outcry when anyone does try to tackle the in work benefit stupidity - or the number of people in subsidised housing that is too big for them. The present government is a victim of all the rubbish that has gone before, most of it of our own making, nothing to do with the EU. BTW I am undecided. I do have a vote, and I am watching what happens to the deal with Turkey. If we give way to Turkish demands for freedom of entry to Europe to all Turkish citizens, then I am afraid I will move decidely into the out camp. Again, just my opinion.
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Roly2
Good post and I agree
The present government is a victim of all the rubbish that has gone before
Sadly all govts have struggled with these "add ons" and they have all developed many different names, processes and claims to have "fixed" the problem going back many many years such as:
Child benefit, family allowance, tax credit, WTC Working Tax Credits, WFTC Working Families Tax Credit, child tax allowance etc.
It will continue for future govts whether in or out of EU as the UK has a culture of dependancy upon benefits and a beleif that "benefits are a right" whether in work benefits or the lazy benefit scroungers
A serious overhaul of in-work benefits and a massive reduction in out of work benefits is the only solution
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Have to agree with Tadd and Roly on this. This government was elected on a mandate to reform the benefit system but it is too little too late. IF we had tackled our own problems first, migrants from the EU couldn't take advantage of the benefits without ever having paid in. We allow people to abuse alcohol, drugs, food and pay them to do it.. How mad is that? My own sister drank herself to death on very generous benefits, in fact her pension was higher than mine, even though she hadn't worked for over 40 years.
I really have a problem with opening up our borders to 77 million Turkish citizens (not that I have a problem with Turks per se, it's just the sheer numbers). Fortunately, I don't think that it will happen in my lifetime.
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Not to mention that the way Gov't Pensions are handed out, indexed, triple locked etc it is no surprise that people who are not receiving them yet will never reach the retirement age as it keeps going up.
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In France, Sweden and Germany the benefit system is largely more or as generous as the UK. So that rather debunks the idea of benefit migrants wanting only to come to the UK. There are other factors in play.
In the UK unregistered cash jobs are easier to find. English is the main language and most educated Syrians, and people from the Middle East speak it. They also have extensive family networks already living in the UK.
Brexit will not change anything related to migrants illegal or otherwise. Migration is caused by war and poverty, it's an international problem.
Most Turks want to go to Germany where there are large Turkish communities well established.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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'And you could set it up so that you get nothing until you have paid a certain amount in.'
Commonsense.
But why should the less well off scroungers bear all the pain?
While you are at it you could make it three years tax and national insurance before getting a vote. Ten years tax and N insurance before you can stand as an MP/MEP. 15 years tax and N insurance (or 10 years in the armed forces) before you can apply for citizenship (and then only if you are in the UK legally). No dual salaries/pensions for EU employees and MEPs who already have an income at taxpayers expense. No tax free EU/international jobs.
The sack for any MP, MEP or EU employee who blatently fiddles expenses.
After that we can look at the House of Lords and local government!!
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How to get Britain's handouts: Polish newspaper produces 20-page guide to making the most of the UK's generous benefits system
- Polish Express created guide for how to bag the best benefits when in UK
- Features sections on every type of welfare and image of money on a tree
- Critics have blasted it as 'encouraging' out of work migrants to head here
- 111,000 Polish National Insurance requests registered in Britain last year
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I don't think that anybody has suggested that all migrants want to come to the UK, it's just one of the countries that are attractive to them. If the TV is to be believed, it's Germany that they most want to go to. According to the Telegraph Germany is the country with the most generous benefits but whether that's the reason who knows? They ones waiting to cross the channel certainly don't what to claim asylum in France. Why? Whatever Mickyfinn says the benefit system there is not as generous as the UK's.Obviously the language is also a factor.
IF Turkey were to join the EU I have no doubt that many would wish to live in the UK, even if Germany would be their first choice.
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If we don't stop this migration by closing all the borders across the EU their will be riot's accross EU especially in the UK in the near future ,l am not a bigget but the E U policy's are turning me in to one.
This message was last edited by windtalker on 10/03/2016.
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Perhaps we should send a few thousand of the inhabitants of Toxteth, Moss Side and The Manor to Krakow as a reprisal.
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I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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They ones waiting to cross the channel certainly don't what to claim asylum in France. Why? Whatever Mickyfinn says the benefit system there is not as generous as the UK's.Obviously the language is also a factor.
The French social system is far more generous than that of the UK. Many French people choose it as a lifestyle choice. The French spend upwards of €450 billion annually on social security.
In 2014 the British government social security budget was £251 billion. (€326 billion)
I live in France part of the year and social security and state subsidy in its many forms are part of the structure of life.
The reason migrants do not seek asylum in France is partly the sheer numbers waiting to claim asylum the difficult ‘red tape’ obstacles the French put in place and language. Most asylum seekers are English speaking. Migrants from the Maghreb who are French speakers generally want to remain in France.
Migrants also know that both countries offer social and financial support which is something alien to them. It's also a very attractive concept when you and your family have absolutely nothing and live in a tent in the cold, mud and rain.
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 10/03/2016.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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I think that the EU might collapse unless something is done to stop the migrants crossing into Greece. Most EU countries don't want to take them and the plan cobbled together by Brussels seem to cost a lot (as we expected) but doesn't actually stop immigration as it's on a one for one basis. Every one that Turkey acceps back means one can come from the refugee camps.It will be safer but can we really trust President Erdogan to keep to his word? I rather think not.
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