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ET
I have to agree with you
Why do the brexiters and in particular on here do they keep going back to immigration
What part of the following do they not understand
1. Immigration to the uk is NOT the fault of the EU
2.How many times have we been down this road on here
3. How many times do the mods have to keep telling them to stop with the immigration points
Only one answer really they have absolutely NOTHING ELSE to say or debate which says a lot
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Heres your answer Tadd
Dictatorship is a form of government where a country or a group of countries is ruled by one person or political entity, and exercised through various mechanisms to ensure that the entity's power remains strong.
EUSSR fits that perfectly, ok?
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And a bit more if the last post wasn't enough
A dictatorship is a type of authoritarianism, in which politicians regulate nearly every aspect of the public and private behavior of citizens. Dictatorship and totalitarianism societies generally employ political propaganda to decrease the influence of proponents of alternative governing systems.
Ring any bells?
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Sorry Tadd but the policies of the EU have affected freedom of movement in so much as the bureaucrats have not adequately taken into account the wide differentials across member states when drawing up their policies, and this together with their failure to seek out greater growth strategies to tackle high unemployment leading to greater dependence on other members states without due consideration of realistic timeframes to forward plan and adjust for such swift large scale movements of people, have acted as major pull factors (already identified ad infinitum on this thread), and to dismiss this is another falsehood I'm afraid.
Plus the bureaucrats have paid scant regard to the need for adequate monitoring mechanisms from which they could have taken swift action to minimise the impacts in the form of effective factoring and strategic forward planning.
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There have been housing crises since the 1950s. Shelter (the charity) was actually launched in 1966 to highlight the desperate need of housing in UK. Remember Cathy Come Home?
Easy to blame the "mass emigration" from the EU (again) but these problems have been going on for a lifetime.
House prices between 1953 and 1970 averaged less than four times wages. Between 1970 and 2000 they were more variable but still around 4 to 1. Since 2000 they have rapidly gone up to 6 to 1.
This matches the rapid increase of inward immigration allowed by the Blair and sucessive governments.
Housing is a commodity like any other. If more people want housing then the price goes up if we do not create more of it.
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Democracy
The UK is a democracy because we elect the executive.
The EU is not democratic because we do not elect the executive.
We have lost many of the functions of a nation state to this body who make many of our laws.
Long term exiters have wanted out because of this and the lack of change for many years. Mass immigration is a more recent phenomenon, but part of it is a demonstration of how our government has lost control of one of the key functions of a nation state.
Seems to me that the remoaners here want both to say that their points should not be refuted (because of fair comment by the moderators) while still saying that BREXIT was immigration or racially motivated.
Perhaps we should try to move away from all of this oft repeated ground and examine the likely stance of the negociators. Or failing this, and perhaps better still, ask the moderators to again stall the thread until negociations start and we have something to get our teeth into?
This message was last edited by tteedd on 11/02/2017.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 11/02/2017.
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https://www.wsj.com/articles/merkel-plans-to-speed-deportations-of-rejected-migrants-1486664642
Sounds like Donald Trump politics.
Where is her so called fairness and compassion now?
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https://www.wsj.com/articles/germanys-global-trade-surplus-hits-record-high-in-2016-1486626872
Germany faces criticism for using and artificially low euro, due to carrying the PIGs, rather than a strong single currency which would impact on its exports.
Who said Germany is not running Europe, except this time its financially and the other 26 are again to weak to see it.
Once again the U.K. Takes a stance.
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Tteedd
As stated before the eu executive members are proposed by each member state who are democratically elected by then nominations are approved by MEP'S who are also elected and this process was agreed by all member states democratically
The UK does not elect the executive the uk elects mp's then the leader of the winning party selects the cabinet or the executive not the voters
Nobody elects the HoL the 2nd executive if you like
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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tteed- The UK is a democracy because we elect the executive. The EU is not democratic because we do not elect the executive.
If I may say so that statement is confusing the sovereign nation state with an EU entity which is not the same thing.
The EU put simply is basically an entity which administers those sovereign nations who chose voluntarily to share their national sovereignty in return for the positive advantages of social integration, fraternity and trade.
At no time does the nation state surrender its ability to democratically govern itself within the legal arrangements stipulated and agreed by national parliaments and treaties.
The British referendum to leave the EU is an example of how nations remain independent and able to still choose their own destiny. That is democracy working as it should.
I believe what is happening at the moment is populist politicians everywhere in western democracies have found a voice due to the negative effects of globalization.
I will admit that globalized trade has caused much hardship to Europes local communities that are dependent on heavy industries and manufacturing that cannot compete with the likes of China and India.
Add to that the impact of the last severe recession and civil wars causing refugees needing help and you have the perfect environment for poularisim that leads people toward separation and protectionism. People are afraid for their futures and those of their children and become easy targets for the unscupulous. A belief that meaningful change can only happen by discarding the institutions and policies that have kept the peace in Europe for seventy years. In short people who are hurting and who are discontent with their expectations look for someone or something else to blame.
The EU is an easy target for populist’s politicians who want to either make a name for themselves or seek power for its own sake. They don’t have any actual solutions for these real problems just a wrecking ball to tear down what men and women of good will have created.
If populism in Europe destroys the Union the continent will return to inevitable nation state conflict.
As one of the founding fathers of the EU, the French diplomat Jean Monnet argued in 1943:
"There will be no peace in Europe if states are reconstituted on a basis of nationalism ... Prosperity and vital social progress will remain elusive until the nations of Europe form a federation or a 'European entity' which will forge them into a single economic unit."
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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"There can be no ifs and buts about it – the EU is a Dictatorship. How come? Answer: When the Commission headed by Herr Juncker issues a Regulation it has the force of law for all 28 member States immediately. Let me repeat that one word – immediately.
Nobody has the right to question this Regulation – it is incontestable. It simply arrives from the EU and it is Law! There are no discussions in Parliament, no processes, no debate, absolutely nothing."
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Jarvi yes they do the regulations you speak of what ever they are have to go through a process of approval and the same goes for Teresa may and even donald trump
Give us an example of Juncker doing exactly what you say and show how it did not follow process and approval before announcements
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Tadd
You asked a question about the EUSSR being a dictatorship I answered it. You obviously didn't like the answer so then ask another question hoping this time the answer will suit your cause. You are a bit like the EUSSR, (Keep voting until you give us the result we want). This is not BBC question time and you certainly aren't David Dimbleby, so I am not playing your game......
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JarvI
the EUSSR maybe a dictatorship but I don't know who or what this is
The question I asked is about the EU being a dictatorship and you haven't answered that with any degree of certainty or proof
No single person in the EU has any executive powers or perogative to make the decisions you claim they have
Not a game just want you to justify your claims which are so far from being accurate or true
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Angela Merkel will offer cash handouts worth millions of pounds for migrants to leave Germany in an effort to silence criticism of her ‘open-door’ border policyIn a highly-embarrassing U-turn over the ill-fated plan, which saw 1.2million migrants flock to the country, Mrs Merkel has now vowed to send many of them home.
The German chancellor agreed a package of measures to speed up the deportation process for an estimated 450,000 migrants who have been rejected asylum.
Now I don't understand this, if immigration is good for a country, as said so many times by the folk on here, I have to wonder why she wants them out.....I do know really.
Perhaps the folk on here who know that immigration is good for a country should write to her and tell her the error of her ways.
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Baz 1946 skilled emigration is good for any country as long as the particular skill you have to offer is required in that country even the UK ..…..what is bad for any country is mass uncontrolled emigration of unskilled people that are not required. This message was last edited by windtalker on 11/02/2017.
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Mickeyfinn,
Looking at key words in your last posting you can see where the failures lie.
Negative effects, hardship, dependent, afraid, unscrupulous, hurting, discontent, wrecking, conflict.
The truth is that the EU have failed to take account of citizen insecurities, failed to take account of the need for effective regulatory structures and compliance against the unscrupulous and action infringement mechanisms intended to protect ( which includes member states with unregulated Banks and/ or where citizens are suffering from large scale corruption, malpractice, maladministration, non compliance with rule of law), failed to build in effective mechanisms to monitor and review impacts from policy decisions, failed to heed and respond to growing citizen unrest and seek out fair and effective solutions that pay adequate attention to cohesion, failed to adhere to stability mechanisms intended to protect from major inequalties between member states ( where one member state benefits beyond predefined criteria at the expense of others, Germany a classic case in point), failed to comprehend the effects from growing swift expansion of member state accession without due regard for differentials or adequate time constraints to adjust, failed to forward plan strategies in response to large scale unemployment, review the need for greater accountability from those responsible for such major failings and intransigence etc.
This one size fits all ideology, without due regard for the need for greater flexibility and willingness to prioritise ongoing reform, adherence to mechanisms intended to protect, turning a blind eye to uncomfortable realities, lack of comprehension of impact on European cohesion from failed policies, lack of willingness to seek out mutually beneficial trading outcomes, all for the sake of an ideological pipe dream, sadly IMHO does a great disservice to the EU.
This message was last edited by ads on 11/02/2017.
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Jarvi - When the Commission headed by Herr Juncker issues a Regulation it has the force of law for all 28 member States immediately. Let me repeat that one word – immediately.
The President of the Commission does not arbitrarily issue any such regulation. That is an example of fake propaganda or pure ignorance.
The Commission submits a legislative proposal to the Parliament and Council. At the first reading Parliament adopts its position. If the Council approves the Parliament's wording then the act is adopted. If not, it shall adopt its own position and pass it back to Parliament with explanations.
The Commission also informs Parliament of its position on the matter. At the second reading, the act is adopted if Parliament approves the Council's text or fails to take a decision. The Parliament may reject the Council's text, leading to a failure of the law, or modify it and pass it back to the Council.
The Commission gives its opinion once more. Where the Commission has rejected amendments in its opinion, the Council must act unanimously rather than by majority
TheEuropean Union then adopts legislation through a variety of legislative procedures. The procedure used for a given legislative proposal depends on the policy area in question. Most legislation needs to be proposed by theEuropean Commission and approved by the Council of the European Union in order to become law.
Over the years the power of the European Parliament within the legislative process has been greatly increased from being limited to giving its non-binding opinion or excluded from the legislative process altogether, to participating equally with the Council in the legislative process.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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ads -How do I get it across to you that it is for national sovereign states to take collective action in the areas you suggest are wanting? Why do you constantly blame the EU for failing people? The blame, if any exists lies with useless national governments who unlike the EU have the power and ability to actually do something.
Germany happens to be a successful nation and is willing to share some of that success with refugees from other countries. It has used its financial resources to help Greece but the Greeks always want more. In 2014 Germany gave a total of €15.8 billion for humanitarian assistance around the world. It also contributes enormously to the defence of Western Europe.
You seem to want to blame Germany for its success. Yes its wealth may be unequal compared to remaining EU states but nothing in the world is ever equal. Some nations like people do better than others. I don't understand what your point is really. Penalise success perhaps.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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My criticism is not at Germany but at the failure of the EU to adhere to mechanisms in place to protect.
This message was last edited by ads on 11/02/2017.
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