BREXIT

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25 May 2016 6:14 PM by baz1946 Star rating. 2327 posts Send private message

Judging by what little I have seen on the TV news, media and such it would appear that Cameron is doing a fabulous job with presenting the reasons to stay, almost to a T most folk are saying Cameron is talking so much bull shi* about what will happen that they have changed minds from in to.... out.

Looks like he's become a victim of his own success....Or as the case might be...His own Bullshi*





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25 May 2016 7:11 PM by Tadd1966 Star rating in Los Montesinos. 1754 posts Send private message

I was sent this article which is apparently on Facebook

 

→ No European should be a foreigner in Europe – please share

I’M YOUNG, BRITISH AND EUROPEAN

As a young academic on the cusp of setting up a professional life, the threat of Brexit is very worrying indeed, writes Shama Adams.

I am in my twenties and have grown up with the notion that as British citizens, Europe is our birthright.

Anglo-Irish statesman Edmund Burke once remarked, “No European can think himself as a foreigner in any part of the continent.”

And I, and countless of others, certainly don’t feel that we are strangers in Europe, or that fellow Europeans are strangers in Britain.

We British are free to pursue opportunities both in Britain and the continent, as other European nationals can do so in their home countries and throughout the rest of the EU, too.

In an increasingly globalised and integrated world, the benefits of this privileged exchange cannot be quantified or stressed enough.

Just as European citizens have moved to the UK to seek opportunities, many British citizens live and work in Ireland and on the Continent. Millions of people, in fact. This is the nature of reciprocal exchange.

I worry about Brexit, because it would threaten the future of all of those people who simply exercised their birthright as citizens of the European Union, and tried their luck in a fellow member-state. I am one of those people.

I am as British as I am European. There is no conflict of identity there. It seems untenable that this duality might be denied to future generations of otherwise cosmopolitan and worldly Britons, simply because of the myopic and narrow self-interest of a largely misinformed and misguided group of people.

EU membership is in our national, regional and global interests.

The top scholars from our best universities, the brightest analysts from independent think-tanks, and the important voices of business leaders who provide jobs and wealth to our country are saying the same thing: Britain will be best served by remaining in the EU and striving to reform itself and the institution from within.

‪#‎StrongerIn‬, stronger together, and still British. It is not our way to shirk from our commitments or responsibilities, or abandon our natural neighbours and closest allies, simply because we no longer want to play by the rules of the club.

We already have an exceptional deal within the EU. Leaving offers no guarantee of anything other than a reduced position of influence in our region and throughout the rest of the world.

If we left the EU, we would suffer from reduced terms of trade with our biggest trading market; a reduced vantage point in which to broker deals with the might of nations like China, India and the USA; reduced opportunities to study, work, live or even retire abroad, and reduced wealth per capita, and so forth.

Choosing to self-isolate under the guise of 'sovereignty' is not the answer.

We are still a sovereign nation that has had the good sense to pool its sovereignty with a group of our neighbours and cousins, and the good fortune that such neighbours, despite their recent problems, still comprise the wealthiest single market in the world.

Don’t believe the propaganda that the EU is a moribund institution, in terminal decline. Or that our interests would best be served running after a Commonwealth, which has long since moved on, and that collectively has not even 10% of the combined wealth per capita, and hence, trading and purchasing power of the so-called defunct EU.

Let us not retreat to an irretrievable past and imperial mindset, but instead look to the future. A future with our place at the centre and helm of our region, Europe. We can only do that within the EU.

● Shama Adams is a Mancunian born, proud British and Australian dual citizen who currently enjoys exercising her freedom of movement as an EU citizen. She lives between Leiden, in the Netherlands, and Perth, in Western Australia. Shama is a PhD candidate at Curtin University. A part-time optician by trade, Shama was also editor for the United Nation's Public Policy and Society Youth Journal, “Perspectives".



_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”



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25 May 2016 7:36 PM by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1833 posts Send private message

Great post Tadd. Almost brought a tear to my eye.smiley

I saw Fararge on TV today. Pontificating in his usual style on the top of a thirty year old purple double decker bus with the slogan "we want our country back'. The music blaring out was the theme from the film The Great Escape. The fact that I'm sure many people felt it an insult to the memory of the British soldiers murdered by the Gestapo in WWll was lost in Farage 's populist rhetorical nonsense. As the Scots poet Rabbie Burns wrote, 'Lord give us the gift to see ourselves as others see us'. (Dialect omitted).

Who does this man think he represents? Not the Dads Army generation. They were far too sensible, brave and fair minded for that. Farage is a caricature of a type of seedy music hall comedy act long past it's sell by date.

The British people will see through him and the rest of the outers I'm sure of that and vote to remain. 

 



_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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25 May 2016 7:50 PM by Tadd1966 Star rating in Los Montesinos. 1754 posts Send private message

mickyfinn

so pleased I did not see that

why do the Brits go on and on about the war yes we should never forget but many people died and suffered from many nations - time we moved on

the likes of farage (and many of the exiters) live in the past same as many English footie fans who see 50 years since winning the world cup is cause for celebration!!!

where in reality it is an embarrasment for English football in having not won it for 50 years - very sad indeed



_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”



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25 May 2016 8:05 PM by Hephaestus Star rating in The Peak District Na.... 1230 posts Send private message

So England has won the World Cup exactly the same amount of times as France, Uraguay and Spain, what's the big deal? 



_______________________

I'm Spartacus, well why not?




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25 May 2016 8:09 PM by tteedd Star rating in Hertfordshire & Punt.... 990 posts Send private message

We won it before we joined the EEC/EU so Micky can't say the EU is responsible!





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25 May 2016 8:21 PM by Tadd1966 Star rating in Los Montesinos. 1754 posts Send private message

some might blame the EU for England not winning teh world cup againwink

Hep other previous winners simply don't go on and on and on about it even those who have won it multiple times but guess what the English go on and on and on and on and on and on.............................blush



_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”



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25 May 2016 8:37 PM by Hephaestus Star rating in The Peak District Na.... 1230 posts Send private message

I'm a football fan and can't recall folk going on and on about 1966, you're obviously not as you would know that it's club before country every time. Having said that I'm off to Wembley this Saturday, this make it 5 times, it would have been 6 had it not been for the Millenium gap, I'm sure that you haven't got a clue what I'm talking about. 



_______________________

I'm Spartacus, well why not?




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25 May 2016 8:51 PM by ads Star rating. 4134 posts Send private message

Such generalisations in response to my last posting Mickeyfinn. :(

Of course I don't dismiss all politicians efforts and endeavours, nor do I have an "agenda" as you put it, but merely respond to several aspects that you have highlighted from a different perspective from your own.

When you observe " However the referendum is not a process you should mix up with other issues no doubt valid on their own account. " it appears somewhat arrogant/ dismissive since many perceive these issues as inter-related given the current propensity to scaremonger, which, given the negative impact they are having on sensible folk, could well backfire spectacularly.

 


This message was last edited by ads on 26/05/2016.



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26 May 2016 7:07 AM by BigAl2015 Star rating. 194 posts Send private message

Micky your comment below is ridiculous:

 The music blaring out was the theme from the film The Great Escape. The fact that I'm sure many people felt it an insult to the memory of the British soldiers murdered by the Gestapo in WWll was lost in Farage 's populist rhetorical nonsense.

The music from the great escape is a popular tune that is whistled at almost every football ground across the country week in week out, are football fans insulting the memory of British soldiers murdered by the Gestapo?

Also worth remembering that these millions of football fans have a vote in the referendum before you consider a reply, sorry I forgot you don't reply to or justify anything that does not comply with your view!!

As far as I can remember the great escape was a story of courage, resillience, friendship and a group of people not wanting to be encarcerated or abide by rules and regulations of people who did not have their interests at heart (ring any bells?).

Maybe the memory of the British soldiers murdered by the Gestapo in WWll has been lost a long time ago and we may now have our chance to redeem it for them?

This statement is best read whilst listening to the theme tune from the great escape blaring in the background.





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26 May 2016 7:08 AM by Tadd1966 Star rating in Los Montesinos. 1754 posts Send private message

Hep we are drifting a bit but

I'm a football fan and can't recall folk going on and on about 1966,

How come every time there is a world cup the media roll out the class of '66 - some have even been spouting off this week!!

How many time shave we heard "they think its allover - it is now".

You might want to google but here is the FA's link

http://www.thefa.com/news/thefa/2016/apr/fa-to-mark-50th-1966-anniversary

enjoy the play off final on Saturday

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”



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26 May 2016 9:25 AM by Hephaestus Star rating in The Peak District Na.... 1230 posts Send private message

If you hate the UK so much why don't you relinquish your citizenship of it?



_______________________

I'm Spartacus, well why not?




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26 May 2016 9:25 AM by Hephaestus Star rating in The Peak District Na.... 1230 posts Send private message

If you hate the UK so much why don't you relinquish your citizenship of it?



_______________________

I'm Spartacus, well why not?




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26 May 2016 9:32 AM by Tadd1966 Star rating in Los Montesinos. 1754 posts Send private message

hep - did you have to say it twice

not many people hate the UK but many like me dislike the attitude in the UK with the arrogance, selfishness and greed not to mention the constant living in the past the balem everyone else culture the i'm alright jack brigade etc etc etc



_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”



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26 May 2016 9:38 AM by Hephaestus Star rating in The Peak District Na.... 1230 posts Send private message

Don't know why that happened, must try harder, as should you in reapect of your spellng and punctuation. wink



_______________________

I'm Spartacus, well why not?




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26 May 2016 10:03 AM by ads Star rating. 4134 posts Send private message

Oh no, not more generalisations. Those attributes exist in all societies, hopefully however they are in a minority!

I certainly don't recognise that picture in the UK where in the main the friendliness and inclusiveness and caring within communities and voluntary work and self depricating humour is quite endearing.

Each to their own I suppose..

 

 


This message was last edited by ads on 26/05/2016.



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26 May 2016 10:24 AM by Tadd1966 Star rating in Los Montesinos. 1754 posts Send private message

ads yes they do exist in many socities but they are far more prevalent in the British society and certainly IMO not in the minority and the Brit abroad well another story completely (and these have the cheek to call the Germans rude and arrogant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

there are also quiet a few on here with these attributes wink

as you say each to their own

 



_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”



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26 May 2016 10:42 AM by ads Star rating. 4134 posts Send private message

Just announced that 3/5 ths of nett migration figures comes from the EU and is growing. Apparently second highest record on level.

Control and consent questions arise according to the Out campaign.

 


This message was last edited by ads on 26/05/2016.



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26 May 2016 11:09 AM by tteedd Star rating in Hertfordshire & Punt.... 990 posts Send private message

There is a part of the British Isles, a British crown dependancy that trades without tariffs with the EU, that is no part of the UK and has no agreement with the EU. The Isle of man.

The Isle of Man's relationship with the EU (such as it is) is governed by article 3 of the UK's act of accession to the the Treaty of Rome. Should the UK leave the EU, the Tynwald ( I of Man government) expects to negociate exactly the same agreement with the EU.

To those that keep putting up the agreements of the  EU with Norway, Switzerland, Canada as straw men that they can pull apart, how about the I of M agreement for the whole of the UK?

The real point is that we do not have to follow to the letter anyone elses agreement but if necessary negociate our own. We start from the point where we have no tariffs but a massive trade imbalance in the EU's favour. We hold all the cards.





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26 May 2016 11:45 AM by Tadd1966 Star rating in Los Montesinos. 1754 posts Send private message

The real point is that we do not have to follow to the letter anyone elses agreement but if necessary negociate our own. We start from the point where we have no tariffs but a massive trade imbalance in the EU's favour. We hold all the cards.

tteed it takes 2 parties to negotaite the EU member states may have a different view and I doubt anyone will bend over backwards and let the uK do whatever it wants ortry to get favour with teh EU - there will be opposition and many states will simply see opportunites and say we can produce that and / or invest inwardly to remove any reliance on any none member states

Teh Uk has nothing really unique that the EU needs in fact most of what the Uk has is owned by overseas companies who may well sell off move from the UK to the EU and take the jobs, technology and /or future funding with them

 

 



_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”



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