| The Comments |
Just curious to know where the information about "The Old Folk" mostly voting to come OUT came from.
Not a chance of me aged 77 coming OUT......its called Common Sense I believe.........
PITBULL.
0
Like
|
This is the age of rejection by electorates of any political grouping seen as large, remote and bossy. I fear for the future of Europe.
it would be a shame and a sham if a 30% turnout allowed this
_______________________
0
Like
|
@scollins."the UK Govt acts in execution of a determined policy of the UK Govt which you happen not to like"
That's the problem with parliamentary democracy - where does it stop? Cameron could equally say that a single IN vote counts the same as three OUT votes. "You voted this Govt in and that's what we have decided. If you don't like it, vote us out".
The Brits were always known for their sense of fair play - (an alien and unfamiliar concept to Continentals) - and it doesn't seem fair for the Govt to use taxpayer resources to promote the IN vote alone, especially when the Govt itself is so divided. I'd have thought it fairer for each side to sum up the points in favour of IN or OUT in a single informative document and for the Govt to send it to all UK voters.
1
Like
|
One the other hand you could see it as merely the government simply wishing to inform the electorate of the facts, albeit from its own view point. People are not stupid they can make up their own minds once given the information.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
0
Like
|
@GuyT - Implementing Govt policy has nothing to do with fairness ( for example, propping up Lloyds, Bank of Scotland etc whilst letting coal/steel production go). Judged even on this thread there is very little chance of the two sides agreeing, even what to disagree on. So the chance of a reasoned paper agreed by all sides is nil. The Govt has taken a position, supported by all mainstream parties. That's what we vote for every 5 years.
By the way, describing " Continentals" as having no concept of fair play is, if I may say so, a rather sweeping and inaccurate statement, but one which is perfectly at home in this thread.
_______________________
Scollins
1
Like
|
Not sure if "propping up the banks" can be compared with coal and steel. The banks going bust would have affected the whole country. For example, looking in my purse at the moment I have about €80 and some change. No problem, just pop to the bank and get some more out or use my card if I need it. Now, if the banks had been allowed to go under, then that 80 odd euros would be it for me to live on. No getting any out of the bank because it's not there anymore.
Anyway, not a Brexit point.
And also to clear up a point. Dual taxation agreements. These agreements are signed with individual countries, not with the EU so that is one thing we can be pretty confident on staying as it is if UK does leave.
The treaty is called:
CONVENTION BETWEEN THE UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND NORTHERN IRELAND AND THE KINGDOM OF SPAIN FOR THE AVOIDANCE OF DOUBLE TAXATION AND THE PREVENTION OF FISCAL EVASION WITH RESPECT TO TAXES ON INCOME AND ON CAPITAL
That was last signed in 2013 so it's a treaty between UK and Spain, not the between the UK and EU countries.
0
Like
|
I find the arrogance, selfishness and ignorance of some Brits to be bordering on the obscene - to think that the future of a once proud nation that really did lead (and bullied) the world, is in the hands of such self-centred attitudes is frightening in the extreme. And the awful thing is, that I see myself as being such a person, not all the time, but too many times.
Fortunately, I cannot vote in the ´in´, ´out´ referendum, not having been resident in the UK for 38 years now. Neither can I, obviously, comment on what it is like to live in Britain (except that, seven years ago, my daughter died there, in her car on a public street, not being found until five days later - nobody noticing her in all that time. OK, why should anyone notice her, but I cannot understand why not?).
My apologies for that, I should just erase it, but cannot bring myself to do so - sorry.
0
Like
|
Daniel Hannan
"Whether or not you support this government, and whether or not you want to stay in the EU, there is something outrageous about spending our own money on telling us what to think.
The government’s defence – that it is giving us facts which just happen to bolster a Remain vote – is almost too absurd to merit serious refutation. By the same logic, it would be OK for ministers in an election year to send every household a state-funded booklet setting out the “factual” case for re-electing the Conservatives."
Hear, hear.
2
Like
|
I guess our taxpayers money has been spent in worse ways than this in the past, yes it would be a little more fair if the same amount of money was available to both camps ('in' & 'out'), but I see this maybe as an opportunity to be able to sift through the 'Remain - reasons for staying in the EU).
I obviously haven't seen these booklets yet, but I will be looking for statements such as ,will, definately, without doubt, proven, fact, I will most probably discard statements like, maybe, should, could, might, probably, possibly.
Let's see.
2
Like
|
Good lot of democrats on Question time last night.
The Conservative thought that it is OK to spend the public's money on propaganda.
The Socialist thought we should control the press.
Roll on the revolution comrades.
And - the BBC got it's research wrong - the other three were outers!!
This message was last edited by tteedd on 08/04/2016.
0
Like
|
It's starting to get very boring tteedd, what with the 'shoutyouties' and the 'dimmerinners', I wager that Cameron is regretting placing the refererendum promise in the tory election manifesto, but then again who knows if it helped him to achieve his overall majority of 12 seats?
Roll on 23rd June, or more to the point the result.
_______________________
I'm Spartacus, well why not?
0
Like
|
Can anyone advise how powers that reside with the European Commission as opposed to the European Parliament can ever be reformed? The commission will surely never reform itself or diminish its own powers?
0
Like
|
The commission will surely never reform itself or diminish its own powers?
You are right. It would take a big push.
Forty years of pushing have not even dented the CAP.
An out vote from the UK might provide that push.
But in any case we need to be nimble and act fast in our own interest if we are to do well in the global economy. Without massive change the EU is going to remain too (or become even more) sclerotic to act in the interests of it's citizens.
0
Like
|
It's starting to get very boring tteedd.
Some of the conversation here, that keeps stating supposition as fact, is indeed boring Hep.
But I cannot be bored when the democratic and economic future of my country is at stake.
0
Like
|
The government is entitled to spend public money on this.
Just like Putin is entitled to control the Russian press?
0
Like
|
Post war Britain struggled economically. Its industry was inefficient and union controlled. British Leyland was a classic example. Britain required a bail out from the IMF. In short Britain alone was a basket case.
The politicians of the day believed Britain could recover and prosper inside a European common market. After a titanic struggle against de Gaulle it happened. Britain then began to get off its knees, slow consistent growth followed until arrival at the prosperity enjoyed today.
Membership of the EU has brought so much benefit to the UK and there are few negatives which impact peoples daily lives. If Britain leaves I believe the country will begin a backward slide back to the sixties. The world has changed no country can go it alone unless they are the size of the USA or China.
Britain needs Europe more than Europe needs Britain. In fact if the UK leaves the EU will be rid of a problem de Gaulle predicted many years ago. Europe will advance leaving the small off shore island to its own devices. He once said Britain is a maritime nation that always looks beyond its borders for prosperity. Maybe there's some truth in that. However its not a ninteeth century world. Unless Britain trades with Europe on equal terms the nation will struggle. It is simply a lie to say it can. New export markets will have to be found and that takes years. Meanwhile foreign investment will leave the UK and the nations current account deficit will grow ever larger.
Brixiteers long for Britain's past glories. A Britain ruling the waves dominating the globe with colonies in every corner. They live in the past not the present.
One of the greatest supporters of a European state was Winston Churchill. He could foresee the future. That is a united continent with shared aims, culture and trade.
If Britain leaves the country will take a giant leap in the dark and I believe its people will eventually recognise their mistake and rejoin in some form or other.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
1
Like
|
Can anyone advise how powers that reside with the European Commission as opposed to the European Parliament can ever be reformed? The commission will surely never reform itself or diminish its own powers?
Political reform takes place by public pressure and lobby groups putting forward their reasons for change. Organised interest groups within Europe can force change with majority public opinion on side. The European Commission is not a un-listening monoliff although I agree it sometimes seems that way. Individuals have little chance influencing their own MP's never mind EU Commissioners. Organisation and support is the route to change.
Of course you need to be a member of the club to change the rules.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
0
Like
|
Mickeyfinn I understand your sentiments but when will we hear about HOW outstanding reform can be accomplished from within the EU?
If only energies from the IN camp could be focused on the mechanics of how in reality this could be achieved and of the background ONGOING measures being considered by MEPs in order to accomplish reform, this would reassure those who consider reform to be an impossible task given the status quo.
Please provide more information on the mechanics required and the commitment by MEPs to achieve reform FROM WITHIN, as many are not prepared to work blind so to speak and commit to an unrealistic scenario or "rhetoric".
Kind regards.
This message was last edited by ads on 15/04/2016.
This message was last edited by ads on 15/04/2016.
This message was last edited by ads on 15/04/2016.
1
Like
|
What I have heard is that the two years projected exit mechanics is very optimistic, some say ten years so let's split the difference and go for five years. And what actually happens during this period, my guess is that no one has a clue?
_______________________
I'm Spartacus, well why not?
0
Like
|
To be honest ads I think many of the sitting MEP's see their job as a gravy train and simply sit on their hands. Better selection process might weed out the dead wood. The result might be actual change which I entirely support.
Change in democracies can only come about by political pressure. The alternative is conflict and war.
I do believe there is now a grounds swell of political opinion in favour of reforming the EU. Brought about in no small measure by Britain over the years. Merkle has expressed the need for change and institutional reforms and next year a new French president may well echo that sentiment.
I'm optimistic it will happen but if Britain leaves one important voice will be lost.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
1
Like
|