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Perry power 1 the EU gave a direct order to the UK not to bail out banks or initiate quantitive easing as it was against EU rules the you UK done it anyway ... And the EU done the same when thay could see the UK had a business plan that was working if it was left to the EU sort the recession out we would all be (trucked).
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If you believe as I do that by any measure both historical and contemporary that Brexit will make the UK a much poorer country then its currency will inevitably follow the same route.
Whenever I read that which Brexiteers write it all sounds like cherry picking, optimistic finger crossing, pie in the sky wishful thinking. Instead of realistic hard nose realities based on solid facts or experience.
Make no mistake Brexit is going to hurt Britain badly. You cannot just walk away from forty years of political and economic integration and success without a high price to pay.
It may well lead to the break-up of the Union and leave a rump state called England floundering in a sea of trade deals that disadvantage it's interests.
The British have been misled up the garden path by ideological right wing politicians who have waited for this moment their entire political lives.
When it all fails they will be long gone. It’s the British people who will pay the real cost.
I believe like Juncker that one day not in our lifetime the UK will return to the EU but with considerably worse terms than it has now.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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YOU have said the same DAMN thing over 500 times MESSAGE received LOUD and CLEAR
BROKERN RECORD SYNDROME
START worrying about FRANK LAND that's PROPER FUxxED
This message was last edited by hughjardon on 11/03/2017.
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Done the Spain thing Happier in the UK
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Which success would that be?
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Hopefully in our lifetime the EU will no longer exist.
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Micky
You start your first and last sentences with "I believe". It is not religion, the EU is not the shining light in the sky bringing all goodness.
As Hugh says, and despite well argued and otherwise contrary reports, you are stuck in the same groove praising the EU and doing down your own country.
You talk about hard facts and analysis but all you give are your unfounded beliefs about the black hole we are dis-appearing into.
However you do strike a new note in your last sentence. But why on earth would we want to re-join, we have burnt our fingers once and that is enough. I'm not even sure a reformed, democratic, efficient and successful EU would attract us, but we both know it will not be any of those things.
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👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍🤜🤝🤝🤝
SPOT ON TTEEDD
Love YOUR WISDOM
Hugh xxxx
This message was last edited by hughjardon on 11/03/2017.
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Done the Spain thing Happier in the UK
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I have yet to read or see any well-argued logical premise to support Brexit. I read a lot of personal abuse both on here and in the wider media but nothing which carries any intellectual rigour.
It's all hope and apple pie. Principally based on Britain’s historical imperial past. It is one thing to have self-belief. Quite another to be a fool hardy kamikaze politician preaching the things people want to hear and which suit their particular prejudices.
You should note that the vast majority of professional main stream politicians and former leaders of the nation support remaining. There is a huge majority in the UK parliament of both houses that supports remaining. Most business leaders in the country support remaining members of the EU.
Brexit is entirely based on a narrow majority of ill-informed voters some of whom I read on here. It’s very clear to me they have not fully understood the consequences of leaving the EU especially without a deal to retain the single market. Brexit supplies them comfort food for their own prejudices and lack of empathy for the purpose of the European project.
Now article 50 is almost upon us the chickens will start coming home to roost. I am terribly sad for the UK it is one ghastly mistake that subsequent generations of British people will have to pay for and regrets will run deep in the fabric of the nation. I have no doubt about that whatsoever.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Theresa May’s plans to rely on World Trade Organisation tariffs in the case of a hard Brexit will cause a “major economic shock” and is worse than any other option, according to an unpublished Treasury document leaked to The Independent. Crashing out of the EU without a trade deal is the "alternative to membership with the most negative long-term impact" on the economy, it warns.
Relying on WTO tariffs would have serious consequences for companies, jobs and food prices, it states. The 36-page report uses language far stronger than that employed in the Treasury's published analysis of Brexit's long-term impact on the economy.
Opponents of a hard Brexit claimed the Treasury's view is unchanged from when the document was first drawn up, saying Parliament must be able to reject the damaging WTO option if Brexit talks ended in failure.
Independent 12 March 2017
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Mickeyfinn, i feel somewhat differently to your pessimistic outlook for the future of the UK, as again all you are spouting is doom and gloom for the UK post brexit, but no one not even you knows what will happen. Some years ago you jumped ship and left the UK for an alternative existence to the hardships of UK living, yet now you complain about the vote of the UK electorate.Most expats at the point of emigrating leave because they have become disillusioned with the way the UK is ruled and functions. Whats your excuse?
When we originally got involved with our European friends it should be remembered that in the 1970's referendum the population voted to join the EEC, the European Economic Community, and not the swaggering out of control body that is known as the European Union. Maybe the out vote was swayed by many who are old enough to remember this, and feel cheated by sucessive UK politicians, who took us into the EU without our full consent?
You say ,"It's all hope and apple pie. Principally based on Britain’s historical imperial past" thats very well spotted , its the very thing that puts the Great into Great Britain, its why the country stood alone against the tyranny of Hitler for a large part of the second world war, why we stood against Napoleon, the Spanish and their Armada, to name a few. Its also why we are a respected worldwide member of the UN and their peacekeeping, and also reluctantly why illegal immigrants see the UK so attractive.
You dont see the exit of the UK as anything but failure, because of the reduction in value of the pound, and your pension, but i think its time to look at wider issues such as the drain the EU has on financial and moral reserves in the UK, and after 40 years the electorate has had enough. Just because your pension is going down does not mean its a bad decision. A pension that you are lucky to enjoy having left these shores. Other lesser countries would not alow you such luxuries after jumping ship. You can vote a UK political party out every five years, but with the EU its permanent unless someone sticks their neck out and allows a referendum. Maybe a conservative did something right for once?
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I have yet to read or see any well-argued logical premise to support Brexit. I read a lot of personal abuse both on here and in the wider media but nothing which carries any intellectual rigour.
The reason for this is simple nobody knows what brexit will bring or what deal the gvt will come away with
We can all guess and come up with theories or do the typical Brit thing and look backwards to the good old days etc.
All the brexiters ca say can say is out = out but with no knowledge or fact of the implications or costs good or bad
The govt cannot lose on this no matter the outcome
I keep asking if the govt come away with a deal that keeps the Uk in the single market, and retains freedom of movement etc. will the brexiters be happy and they can't even answer that
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Mickeyfinn if you have not read any articles that give a good case on leaving the EU then try reading this mornings gaurdian new paper on the net ....By 2030 the UK population will be over 80 million (bigger than Germany's) even if the UK stopped mass migration tomorrow the population within the UK will carry on growing .
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windtalker
Why would a growth in UK population be a good case for Brexit
What will Germany's population be in 2030?
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Robert
You have misunderstood many of my posts. I have not been motivated to protest against Brexit because of my own personal circumstances. They are not how you describe them.
I am motivated by a belief the EU is a stronger project with Britain being part of it. Europe is better and stronger together co-operating in a pooled environment against the dangers and risks of the world.
Your descriptions of Britain and it's past leads me to the conclusion my view of why the Brexit vote happened is entirely accurate. You should also consider the serious historical British failures as well as the success. For example had Britain not had a policy of appeasement it may well have prevented the deaths of 55 million people.
I do not hate Britain but I could write a list of serious historical political failures that caused suffering alongside every positive facet of British political life. Had the Sykes-Picot agreement not happened when Arabia was carved up after WW1 and the Palestinians not been abandoned to their fate the Middle East would not be the mess it is today. Then there is Suez I could go on.
So you see Britain is capable of serious failures and Brexit in my view is just one more. Let’s hope it does not cause the ramifications and misery of all the others.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Tadd 1966 if you don't already know the answer to your last post you should not be posting on hear.
Personally I couldn't care less what the German population will be in 2030 this thread is about the UK Brexit.
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Interesting footage from Select Committee ( Nov 2016) re "Post Brexit EU Trade: Patrick Minford v. Parliament Committee" on YouTube which highlights the benefits of free trade from a less protectionist and more global perspective.
https://youtu.be/k_TvnF1-DO8
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Windtalker. The populations of western industrial nations need to increase as their economies expand. Migrant labour is essential from the rest of the world never mind just Europe. Companies today in the UK struggle to meet their labour demands from the existing population.
Unless you wish to see the UK stagnate economically and go back fifty years that is just something you and many others will have to accept Brexit or not.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Mickyfinn are you saying that the population of the UK has to grow to survive ...why not just stay as is what you are suggesting would turn the UK into one massive council estate from lands end to john o groats with a population of China.get real .
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If the West needs migrants to sustain their economic growth, what happens to the countries that they came from: do they become poorer? Surely that's not fair.
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"The populations of western industrial nations need to increase as their economies expand."
In the UK that is a fallacy spread by those that are pro-immigration or at least those PC 'liberals' who have painted people racisist for being anti-immigration.
The truth is that we are very innefficient in the UK. Our per person productivity is well below that of comparable western nations. We should grow our economy by efficiency and innovation.
It is true that the size of an economy grows if there are more employed people but that is the sort of growth we do not need because there are already too many people on this island. As pointed out on this thread recently we cannot hope to feed the population from our own resources so we should not be seeking to increase our population.
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