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“We won’t be able to talk about Britain’s exit from the European Union because the prime minister has said she will make the application for Britain to leave in accordance with article 50 by the end of March,” Merkel said. “We accept that and wait for that application.”
16th November 2016
Angela Merkle also said after that meeting that no further detailed discussions could be held until the UK formally submitted its application to exit the trade bloc by triggering article 50.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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So a catch 22
But it is Merkle stopping discussions not May.
Can't discuss it until article 50 is triggered, can't trigger article 50 until its cleared by the House Of Lords. Just what all the remoaners want. BUT not gonna work - we are leaving the EU.
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Ads, as this relates to EU citizens claiming benefit in Germany, and the article is dated 12 October 2016, first it has nothing to do with us once we have left the EU, and second, it is old news, so where does it have any relevance to Brexit? All it proves is that the EU framework is drastically flawed, something the UK public have realised for many years and resulted in a leave vote at the referendum
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Jarvi, Merkel is not stopping brexit, and you know it, your latter comment even states " can't trigger article 50 until its cleared by the House Of Lords. " I dont know about you, but Angela Merkel is not a member of the House Of Lords, so i dont see how she has any influence in the decision to trigger Article 50.
Just what drugs has your GP prescribed you, as they seem to be distorting your view of reality?
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robert
I suggest you get your reading glasses on
Read very carefully below - take your time- glasses on - not drunk- ready?
"But it is Merkle stopping discussions not May."
"Can't discuss it until article 50 is triggered, can't trigger article 50 until its cleared by the House Of Lords. Just what all the remoaners want"
No mention of Merkle in the House of Lords, no mention of Merkle stopping Brexit.....
DRUG FREE......
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Jarvi, you are going in such ever decreasing circles that you are in danger of disappearing. You try to manipulate facts by use of words how can Merkle stop discussions when the exit strategy, Article 50, has NOT been triggered by the UK government YET. Until this happens its pointless Angela Merkel (or any other EU countries representative) discussing ANYTHING. Yes, the UK will be leaving the EU, have no doubt, but in the meantime whats the point of attempting to spread Fake News? It does not advance the leave vote, or this thread, so if you are not on drugs, maybe you should get weaker rose coloured glasses, you may see things clearer. I can send you the address of a good optician if you would like. Cheers, Rob
PS, you must also realise that Merkel has no discussion to stop as she hasnt started any yet.
This message was last edited by robertt8696 on 02/03/2017.
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It is no longer an issue if the UK leaves the EU. It is simply a question now on the arrangements the two sides will agree upon.
I expect all EU citizens to retain their existing legal rights where ever they live. Anything less will be an abuse of power.
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 02/03/2017.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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And whatever the 2 parties agree upon the public will have no say in it good bad or indifferent
Many will feel they did not get what they voted for
I keep asking if the finail agreement includes the uk remain in the single market and all that comes with it such as freedom of movement how many exiters would be happy and how many would be up in arms and feel let down
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Current situation.
The UK government has offerred to guarantee the right of EU citizens currently in the UK after Brexit in a reciprocal deal but the EU will not consider the matter until artical 50 has been activated and negociations start. So in essense Jarvi is correct and Micky reported the reverse of the truth.
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I, like most, on here feel that the government should do more to assuage the anxieties of people settled here. A unilateral guarantee has been suggested. I would like to support this, but as the government already has the moral high ground, and there may be other factors we are unaware of, we should allow the government some leeway. It was suggested the other day that a universal guarantee may have unintended consequences and allow groups, such as criminals and legal summons evaders, to stay who we might otherwise wish to deport.
Does anyone here think that we are likely to want to deny rights to the vast majority of these people? I think if I was a law abiding citezen from the EU I would have little fear.
Any who have been here working for 5 years are already entitled to apply for residency.
BTW the English Channel is called La Manche (the sleeve) in France.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 02/03/2017.
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From the last couple of comments its reminded me of an old saying, which aptly fits the bill;-
"you can fool some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time"
Whatever happens there will always be a certain amount of the population who will never be happy with the final outcome.
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Robert ,
the article I posted appears to have great relevance with regard to freedom of movement and the upcoming negotiations with the EU. The article recognises " Concern about the abuse of freedom of movement was one of the key arguments of those in favour of Brexit as to why Britain should leave the union."
If we are to gain any access to the single market post Brexit, freedom of movement issues have to be addressed alongside future trading arrangements.
Did you notice the similarity of arguments put forward by labour minister, Andrea Nahles, a Social Democrat member of Angela Merkel’s coalition government in this article, by comparison to the UK Govts concerns and the language used?
For instance..... "The ruling would only "encourage social welfare tourism”, "....... " unfairly burdened " by monies spent on EU citizens currently registered as jobseekers, ....."for those who have never worked here and are dependent on state financial support in order to afford the basic costs of living, the principle applies that they can apply for those means in their own country.”...." protecting German municipalities from “financial overload” was also crucial to the decision."..........."to close the loophole opened up by the federal court’s ruling which would have led to unbridled access to our social welfare system,”.
These are obviously common concerns that need to be addressed, so why should they not be addressed within the upcoming negotiations?
To repeat, Canada, when formulating their treaty arrangements with the EU, has recognised the need in their treaty to make allowance for irregular movements that can impact them economically or socially, so why not do the same to make allowance for similar ( common) concerns in the UK's post Brexit arrangements with the EU?
This message was last edited by ads on 02/03/2017.
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THESE BLEEDING toffs only want to KEEP there EU slaves I bet there all worried they are GONNA have to wash the SKID MARKS of there GOLD ENCRUSTED toilets when they all HEAD BACK to ROMANIA
LOL
Hugh
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Done the Spain thing Happier in the UK
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Ads, yoiu say, "These are obviously common concerns that need to be addressed, so why should they not be addressed within the upcoming negotiations?" The reason the EU is not going to adress these things with the UK is because upon leaving the EU they will be nothing to do with us, as we have left the Union.
They may at some time in the future debate these problems (within member countries) and any resolution made might be extended to NON-EU members as a concession to them depending on the country and its ties at that point in time. To negotiate concessions with the UK before an exit is completed , is (in this matter) obvious why they will not negotiate now. Why should they make the UK a special case when they have not agreed anything within the EU countries?
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Tadd - The UK government has offerred to guarantee the right of EU citizens currently in the UK after Brexit in a reciprocal deal but the EU will not consider the matter until artical 50 has been activated and negociations start. So in essense Jarvi is correct and Micky reported the reverse of the truth.
Actually Tadd you are wrong and technically right at the same time. The subject of EU citizen rights forms part of the whole negotiations for Brexit. It was decided in the EU council of ministers meeting that their policy would be not to discuss with Britain any negotiations until article 50 was triggered.
May did tried to do something similar but under pressure from her own side she then raised the issue attempting to get it resolved. That was a political mistake because it appeared to everyone she was trying to use the issue as a bargaining chip.
Being a little generous for a brief moment May probably acted in good faith attempting to pacify her own side. As is often the case in politics it simply muddied the waters and made no difference to the House of Lords vote
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Mickyfinn
I might be wrong but I think you are responding to the wrong person maybe it should have been tteedd
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Apologies Tadd it's these quotes that don't indicate their source.
Many senior Tories, including key members of the cabinet Johnson and Fox, have previously suggested that the 2.2 million EU nationals living in the UK should be protected. This issue has now descended into nothing less than playing ping pong politics with people’s rights.
A greater battle line to come will be the final approval vote on the actual terms of Brexit which could potentially scupper the entire thing. Wishful thinking perhaps on my part but I still believe it's a done deal without Labour Party opposition
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 03/03/2017.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Robert,
What are these upcoming negotiations with the EU about if they are not negotiating the terms of trade, access to the market etc ( of which movement of people and their rights form a part)?
My point being that if Germany has already expressed the same concerns re abuse of free movement and are currently in the process of legislating in their own right without consulting / negotiating with the EU on this point ( since they consider it is already covered under the guise of a jobseekers loophole ..."for those who have never worked here and are dependent on state financial support in order to afford the basic costs of living, the principle applies that they can apply for those means in their own country.” ) why can't the UK do the same in the interim?
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Here's an idea, that wont go down well at all.
On here this has gone on for ages about the rights and wrongs of leaving the EU, around and around with so many good posts about every good and bad reason for staying or going, so much new truth has come out since the vote to leave which to be honest none of us knew anything about before, the in and out politicians never told us anything really except what they personally wanted out of, in or out, seemed more then a little all one sided as to who was making the case on the day.
Now the truth is emerging about the true cost of leaving, the confusion and so on it makes you wonder if it is all worth it, the cost of just the arguments which are going on behind closed doors surely must have been more then enough what this country would have paid to the EU for the next twenty years alone.
It seems the word about this is still with ever who I speak with, the bad weather talk is nothing anymore, and everyone almost to the last has said 'Is it worth it' now we are getting to know the true cost, and not talking monetary cost either.
Many have even said about having another vote for in or out so that all those who did vote out might just now want to stay in the light of whats come out due to the massive future problems it will cause and were never spoken about, blame which lays solely on the people advising everyone.
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I understand the point you make baz1946, but the debate about reform to date has been very one-sided, I.e. aimed at the UK reforming their policies ( which I do get but it has to be done in a realistic and timely fashion given all the ongoing pressures that are sadly leading to division and unrest, some from self induced pressures, but all too many from migration pressures which the EU bureaucrats have refused to acknowledge).
The chances of the EU reforming however, appears nigh on impossible, which is equally essential if unrest is to be controlled from the ever growing dissatisfaction within various member states of the EU and the impact on those member states citizens. So isn't this the time for the EU bureaucrats to wake up to these uncomfortable realities and demonstrate a willingness to listen to these underlying major concerns and reform before it's too late?
My fear being that to continue with the status quo won't solve anything, in fact it might just proliferate unrest.
This is no time for continuing intransigence if we are ALL to make progress and find mutually beneficial outcomes.
This message was last edited by ads on 03/03/2017.
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