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You won't 'get back your country' if you vote for a Brexit - you'll give it to the most right-wing UK government in recent history
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/you-wont-get-back-your-country-if-you-vote-for-brexit-youll-give-it-to-the-most-right-wing-uk-a7079581.html
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Micky
Why are we shouting in big bold letters?
Isn't this article by Jon Danzig who is trying to get people to vote for 'remain'?, if so what credibility does it then have?
Resisted the temptation to go bold
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I copied the type heading. I have been warning for some time on here that Brexit politicians have another agenda. They are using the referendum debate for their own purposes. Read their track record in the article. It is a warning to all centre ground political thinkers. In 2020 the backlash against, them if they get power after Brexit will propel Corbyn into Downing Street.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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I disagree
If the vote is for Brexit, then it is likely that there will be a change at the top of government, I believe this will secure the result of the next election in favour of the conservatives, the reason being they will be in the process of carrying out the will of the majority of people in the UK and it would only be fair to give them time to bring about the changes they say they can bring.
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Everything that can be said has been said, that is if there are no last minute offers to be made, I don't take the pollsters seriously, these guys would stand outside Old Trafford on a match day asking folk wearing Man Utd replica shirts, which was the best football club in the world.
I was out and about in very rural Ashbourne yesterday and noticed loads of 'Vote Leave' posters on the edges of farmland, I'm taking the St George flags as being football related and the Union Jacks as being Brexit support, plenty of both out in the sticks.
I'll wait until the 23rd and then get on with my life, which is basically what I'm doing now.
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I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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Noticed these conclusions by the EFB (Economists for Brexit) the other day in a critique
" Conclusions
In a previous report on the Treasury’s methods for long and short term we set out a lengthy critique. We also made a similar critique of the CEP modelling approach. We favoured the use of CGE (structural) models. However we note that other groups have used CGE methods and get to some extent similarly negative results. What has emerged from considering all these approaches used by different modelling groups in the consensus is that they all assume post-Brexit the pursuit of protectionist policies on imports by the UK. This reduction in the scope of free trade predictably would damage UK output and productivity whatever methodology is used. The key difference in EFB is the use of the unilateral free trade assumption under which Brexit is a move towards free trade. This not only gives a long-term boost to output but it also boosts the short term outlook by the standard route of expectations; with suitable policies it can be generally popular and beneficial across all sectors. It also enables the UK to be strong in negotiations and take control of its own policy environment independently of any actions by our EU neighbours. This in turn closes down short term ‘policy uncertainty’, avoiding the ad hoc rises in credit and other financial costs in the short term.
Thus the consensus has in short misrepresented the post-Brexit potential outlook quite seriously to UK voters in this referendum. It is the intention of EFB to bring this clearly to these voters’ attention. "
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Everything that can be said has been said,
Hep could not agree more - nothing I have read or seen anywhere will make me change my vote I am voting remain
Roll on 23rd when it is all done then we can debate the result
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Politically Britain has always supported the middle ground of politics. In general they dislike extremes of left or right. Under normal circumstances far right parties cannot get near power. Likewise the left although Corbyn has managed quite effectively to take over the Labour Party because of a rule change giving one member one vote.
I agree David Cameron cannot survive after a Brexit vote. Civil war in the Conservative Party is inevitable afterward, just at a time most crucial to negotiating towards the UK withdrawal from the EU.
The resulting political and market chaos will be devastating for Britain. Once Johnson gets the PM's job and appoints his right of centre chums to cabinet he will adopt policies to suit their own personal political beliefs. Not those of the majority in the country. They won't have to. The party is already elected and he can be emboldened by the Brexit vote claiming it's what the people want. His entire time in politics has been spent manovering towards this moment.
I believe he will try and adopt a form of Thatcherism mark 2. The country will not stand for it especially the unions. Industrial unrest and recession will follow. All this during the attempts to leave the largest and most successful trading block on the planet.
The only political alternative left in 2020 will be Corbyn. I see most of the electorate by then having no choice but to choose the best of the worst.
A gloomy prospect for Britain I agree. Voting for Brexit will lay the seeds of Britain's sharp decline in the world, it is a risk too far. I just hope above hope people will wake up before its too late.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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I thought Cameron had stated publically on more than one occasion that he will remain leader and follow through the mandate of the British people and fight for the best interests of Britain?
Interesting that the remain campaigners for whom Cameron is a staunch campaigner is now suggesting that he will "step down" in the event of Brexit.
Does this mean that your respect for Cameron has wavered and you expect that he will not be honourable to his word to the British voting public?
This message was last edited by ads on 13/06/2016.
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He won't go voluntarily he will be ousted by the openly Brexit and the closet Brexits in the party waiting to see which way the wind blows for their greater advantage.
Europe has always been a ticking time bomb under the Conservative Party ever since Health took Britain in against the will of the party. They knew one day they would enact revenge. I sincerely hope that time is not coming.
These people don't care about Britains best interests they care about power.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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First of all.....Tad, yes of course I am who I say I am and of course I have the qualifications and experience I stated. The London centric arguments that I see from time to time need putting firmly in place, I will do it whenever it comes up because little England is not something any of us should aspire to.
I am am wondering about the results of this referendum and how difficult it will be for all the politicians.
1 The leave campaign have to resign from their EU jobs if we stay, the leave politicians will also find it hard to survive.
2. The remain campaign will have to consider their position if we leave because they will be at odds with the people and their party
3. Nicola sturgeon will have to have a very close eye on the Scottish results and which way they have gone, my guess is it will be closer than she assumes it to be.
Seems like lose or lose to me!!
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Best wishes, Brian
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Not a win for democracy then and recognition of British citizens voices (whichever campaign wins the day)? ;)
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Briando55
If you are what you say you are then no worries but there are a few on here who make you question claims
Anyway I agree with you fully on your 3 points
My biggest fear is that if the 4 nations differ in the voting in or out then it will lead to screams for independence votes across the UK and even more mess and uncertainty
All lose lose.
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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No problem Tads, I know what you mean.
And yes, more mess and uncertainty to come, I think so too.
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Best wishes, Brian
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S&P have been saying that UK and in particular London property prices are in a bubble for about two years. Now they announce this earth shattering prediction, Standard & Poor’s... Brexit “could potentially reverse the significant boost to real estate asset values that the UK, and London in particular, has experienced in recent years."
I bet when the inevitable happens and the UK stays in they'll say, "Stayng within the EU could potentially reverse the significant boost to real estate asset values that the UK, and London in particular, has experienced in recent years”. Haha. Crystal Ball Alert.
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The EU is like a bad marriage you have been to counselling that hasnt worked you've stayed together for 30 years the kids have left home the glue has gone finally you have to find the BALLS to walk away
At least you can look back and say you you were good parents
Love Hugh xx
This message was last edited by hughjardon on 13/06/2016.
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Done the Spain thing Happier in the UK
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These people don't care about Britains best interests they care about power.
Disinterested statement with lots of reasoning?
All the Coservative MP's I have met have been passionate about their country. Is that not why they are making all the running on both sides of the argument now?
Much better than being against the EU when you label it a capitalist clique but being all for it when you think it looks like the part of the comitern.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 14/06/2016.
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And yes, more mess and uncertainty to come, I think so too.
Is it not a 'contradiction in terms' to be 'certain' that we face 'uncertainty'?
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And yes, more mess and uncertainty to come, I think so too.
Is it not a 'contradiction in terms' to be 'certain' that we face 'uncertainty'?
no it's more of a predictive observation isn't it?
I never really understand why we use 'is it not' when a simple is it will do, funny old language is it not?
This message was last edited by briando55 on 14/06/2016.
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Best wishes, Brian
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no it's more of a predictive observation isn't it?
I'm not certain!!!!
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