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ads - I am confused by your response as why is the call and requirement for well overdue EU reform and accountability of the EU Commission so offensive to you?
That need as you call it exists in your mind. If it were a pressing demand among the peoples of Europe would we not see popular demand everywhere for it other than Britain. That is all I am saying.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Mickeyfinn,
You appear to be denying there is a major desire for greater flexibility to take account of the current failings and requirement for EU reform from those member state leaders sufficiently concerned by growing unrest from their citizens across Europe (as a consequence of EU failings) and also keen to reach mutually beneficial outcomes with the UK?
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No. There is a difference of emphasis and attitude in Europe to that of the UK and the view you have. Europeans believe reform comes from their own national governments first and then collectively agreeing with mutual cooperation changes within the EU structure where deemed necessary.
Most Europeans are content with the EU as is but correctly demand change from their own elected governments. You seem to believe in a direct opposite which is why metaphorically speaking you seem to be banging your head against a wall.
David Cameron had a list of reforms he believed the EU required. All of it fell on stony ground because he was alone in believing those changes were necessary. You are the same I’m afraid.
Another factor is that EU political leaders play always to a domestic audience. Not to the rest of the block and that makes a difference to substantive change within the EU.
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 06/02/2017.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Many, not most European citizens are relatively happy with the EU, because they see and hear about the many grants available which over 30 years or so have generally been seen as a positive providing a relative short term boost.
Sadly many of the projects have not been wise and sustainable investments, providing NO long term employment prospects or growth for each Nation, so it stands to reason the citizens will look to their local governments and politicians who did NOT invest or spend wisely, hence the waves of current unrest in many of the 27.
Sometimes to the Right as in UK and possibly France, Netherlands and even Germany, sometimes to the left as in Greece and currently Spain.
Unsustainable immigration is certainly not the only reason but tribes, creeds, villages, towns, cities, provinces etc. all become Nationalistic at times of stress such as the crash of 2007, created by irresponsible and poorly regulated financial institutions but not controlled by governments, which is taking a long time to recover from given the prolific overspend by many nations, who are now inflating the price of assets by irresponsible growth in money supply.
And pp for crissake, NOT ONE person has ever suggested halting immigration and supply of qualified labour, just some controls, if and when required, simples really.
Please stop misquoting.
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Brexit vote already bad for firms, bosses say.
20% of the countries biggest firms responded.
We have always argued the EU has been good for big business, it keeps labour costs down for a start.
But what the thousands of small and medium businesses that are the lifeblood of this country and are set up, maintained all over the country, North to South and sometimes struggle to market their produce due to certain over unnecessary regulations at times.
Have they been surveyed?
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Hugh man That's what is called fake news by the profits of doom and gloom ,the UK as you well know is booming.
This message was last edited by windtalker on 06/02/2017.
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"Unfortunately, it looks like business in this country is already feeling the pain of the economic upheaval of leaving the EU," said Ipsos Mori chief executive, Ben Page.
"According to respondents there is no sign that this is likely to ease this year, with two thirds saying they thought their business situation would get worse in the next 12 months," he added.
Two-thirds of the chairmen, chief executives and other directors who responded thought that their business would be worse off after the UK left the European Union.
Meanwhile 45% of the 114 FTSE 500 bosses surveyed expected to feel a negative impact in five years' time.
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And yet more fake news from the profit's of doom and gloom.
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** EDITED **
This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 2/6/2017 11:30:00 PM.
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NO SNIDE COMMENTS PLEASE. STICK TO THE THREAD SUBJECT.
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I bet those two thirds wanted to stay in the EU SSR.....More remoaners...
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Two thirds of business leaders wanted to stay speaks volumes
A clear majority then
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Congratulations to anyone who has bettered me in education or professional advancement. You have done well. Lets hope you have gained in humility and experience.
If not then perhaps you should meet a plumber. Generally cheerful and useful people who can repair your cystern and flush the muck from your system.
But you do not need to be educated or have a trade to know that abuse means you have lost the argument.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 07/02/2017.
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Exactly Ads
It appears there are a few on here who believe all they are told by the BBC , the FT and Big businesses is gospel.
Of course BigBusiness will be hurt, import costs have increased due to weaker pound, but they can pass on the cost to consumers due to competition, therefore lower profits for shareholders.
When will they realise that UKPLC is run by thousands of small businessmen all over the country who see little or no benefit from being in the EU as they are not large employers and can't save on lower wage costs but live in places where schools are bursting, A&E s are stretched, Doctors appointments take forever and just want some control over EU job seekers, failing to find work at home so coming here to work.
Let the EU countries do something about their ludicrous unemployment rates.
PS before anyone starts.
I am not racist.
I DO NOT wish to halt immigration
I don't believe immigration was the whole reason for BREXIT.
I have met though with many small businessmen from all over the UK, many who voted to leave the EU and have no regrets.
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"It appears there are a few on here who believe all they are told by the BBC , the FT and Big businesses is gospel."
You forgot to state Hugh that they only focus on anything that is anti UK and pro EU SSR......They never mention any positives as they are confused and think they are living in Eutopia instead of Europe.....
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Jarvi - think they are living in Eutopia instead of Europe.....
Actually Europe is doing fairly well thank you in comparison with the UK. As an example of that some recent statistics on hospital occupancy this winter had NHS hospitals at close to 95% occupancy. An unsustainable figure. In Europe the figure is 80%.
I use both the French health service and the Spanish when the need arises and do not find any of the problems I read about in the UK. Waiting times are short and treatment excellent in both EU states.
There is unemployment in Europe. the recession took it's toll but they who have jobs are real jobs not Micky Mouse zero hours contracts. Employees have more job security in Europe and the standards of living is high for ordinary people. House prices are sustainable for working people and education standards are excellent.
So yes life is pretty good in Europe and long may it continue. With Britain gone I'm optimistic we can move towards the consolidation of a federal EU state in the future and an economy and living standards which are likely to be the envy of the world.
British workers face “cut-rate, bottom-of-the-league protections” after Brexit, with more zero-hours contracts and fewer guarantees over holiday and equal pay, the TUC has warned, as it publishes a damning report highlighting the soaring number of insecure jobs in the UK.
The number of workers without guaranteed hours or basic employment rights has risen by more than 660,000 in the past five years, the study found.
The Independent 7 February
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 07/02/2017.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Try telling that to the 30% unemployed Greeks or 20% unemployed Spanish.
Yes many French farmers are ecstatic with the generous fEU farming subsidies, not likely to oppose it are they?
Not EUtopia Jarvi, I think Mickey must be living in La La Land If he and others can't see the problems created in many EU countries and why so many come to the UK, the only country with jobs available and consistently large net immigration, putting pressure on the hospitals etc. That you so eloquently mention.
PS in France and Spain, citizens make considerably higher contributions to their health service if not pensioner and the French Social Securitybsystem has been effectively bankrupt for years, have you not noticed the unrest with Mnsr. Hollande?
I will be pleased to see immigration statistics for EU Counties for the last 10 yearscMickey, ever since Mr Blair opened the doors to all.
What was once a healthy and necessary trickle has been turned into a flood.
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You forgot to state Hugh that they only focus on anything that is anti UK and pro EU SSR......They never mention any positives as they are confused and think they are living in Eutopia instead of Europe.....
Your post Micky says it all..."More job security" - is this where no matter what you do or what mistakes you make you cannot be fired? keep focusing on the negatives of the UK.....
"So yes life is pretty good in Europe and long may it continue" - Might be for you - Tell that to all the un-employed youngsters in the southern countries, I don't think they will agree.....
"federal EU state in the future" - This has been tried before - it was called the USSR - didn't work........
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Yes Europeans contribute more toward their health service. It's called good government to provide the resources people actually want and need and not cream off the best for wealthier people in their private hospitals.
In Britain the NHS has been underfunded from the outset largely because the British insist on getting something for nothing. It has always been politically unacceptable in Britain to increase taxation for what are considered social values. The middle classes are content to pay their BUPA fees and care not a fig for less well-off people struggling at the bottom of the social scale.
Britain is one of the most unequal societies in Europe and after Brexit that will become a whole lot worse.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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