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When a EU citizen comes on holiday to the UK and has a accident they can use the NHS for free ,this can be controlled and claimed back by the UK from their country of origin because of the very small amount of accident's, but when you have up to 300,000 from the EU migrating to the UK per year with the in tension of setting up home in the UK the countries they have come from do not pay a penny to the UK for any NHS treatment because they are now classed as UK citizens.
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Yes, windtalker, and that is the fault of the UK for not implementing the rules the EU lays down and which are used by all the other countries. Why no EU foreigners register in UK like Spain does? Too difficult so says the UK government. Why no asking for proof of sufficient income like Spain does? Too difficult says the UK government. Why no....well, you get my drift.
So something else to blame the EU for when it is actually a UK problem. This "freedom of movement" only last for 3 months, you know. And the majority of spending by the NHS on treating foreigners (which is too difficult to get payments for unlike other countries which seem to have no problem) is on those from outside the EU.
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Tell me when did a part time job become a zero hour contract was it somthing to do with massaging the unemployment figures ?
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The sooner the day that folks residing in the UK can see large buildings with 'Technical College', 'Skills Training Centre' or similar over the door, the better, but don't hold your breath.
Sorry to dissapoint you folks not living in the UK but I live about 400 yards from one. I was there during the Summer term assisting with a number of london wide events promoting the 'Stem Subjects' Science, Technology, Engineering and Maths and was very impressed with the facilities aimed at what I would call 'Sixth Formers'. New Appreniceships, even for Graduates are coming on line for IT and other subjects. Things are changing.
I was at a Parliamentary event last week and there was the biggest Bremoaner I've ever heard saying 'I'm a working class girl from Bradford and have to bring people in from Europe because we haven't got the skilled staff here, and going on about setting up companies for her new businesses in Ireland and France but it was so difficult in Germany shes had to buy an existing company. Total Rant form somebody who had just sold her busines for £24 million. No mention of her re-investing in her staff or apprentices? Probablly one of the nastiest greediest people I have ever met. so happy to exploit cheap foreign labour.
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Mareidav
This "freedom of movement" only last for 3 months.
Could you make a little clearer for me as I am a little confused?, probably my problem not yours 
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A proposal for guaranteeing rights in Europe post Brexit
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/09/eu-citizenship-proposal-could-guarantee-rights-in-europe-after-brexit
Plan would ensure freedom to live, travel and work for nationals of countries that have left the union – including Britons
The European parliament is to review a proposal for an associate EU citizenship open to nationals of a country that has left the union but who want to stay part of the European project and retain some of their EU rights.
The plan, tabled by a liberal MEP from Luxembourg, could mean British citizens who opt for the new status would be able to continue to travel freely and live on the continent – rights that may no longer be automatic after Brexit.
“The idea is simply to guarantee those who want it some of the same rights they had as full EU citizens, including the right of residence in the EU, and to be able to vote in European elections and be represented by an MEP.”
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Windtalker said
Tadd1966 the NHS in the UK would love to run a Spanish type Health system ( if you don't pay in you pay private) but it can't due to the whole of the EU having the right to free health care in the UK without paying any contributions in the NHS is over run with foriners claiming free health care and according to the EU they have the right to do so this problems seems to have got worse over the last 15 years, the UK N H S just can't cope no matter how many Doctors or Nurses they employed or money the government put in this is why the majority hear in the UK voted for Brexit .
Another myth
Sorry but this is not correct the whole of the EU do NOT have the right to free health care in the UK.
The EU does NOT say they have the right to free health care in the UK you need to read the reciprocal health care agreements with all of the EU member states and the EU directive.
If that was the case then all of the EU would have health care rights in every EU member state that has an NHS (e.g. Spain) but they don’t because of the individual member states rules on health care for their own citizens etc
According to the UK rules the NHS is residence based so yes anyone who is a resident can obtain heath care which is the UK’s fault NOT the EU's – they can (and should change the system to a contribution based and citizen based similar to Spain) same for benefits
Tourists especially from EU use the EHIC card and if the UK doesn’t claim it back then that is the UK’s problem. (same for people from other countries who have reciprocal health agreements with the UK). Any tourists who are not EU citizens and have no reciprocal health care agreements then they should be made to pay like many other countries do
The fact the UK NHS does not have a POS for non-residents etc. is the UK’s fault not the EU
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Obama told the UK to get to the back of the queue following the Brexit result, Trump has already indicated that we will be doing a bit of queue jumping. Do the remainers welcome this, or would they prefer that the Americans carry on turning the screw?
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BigAl2015
Mareidav
This "freedom of movement" only last for 3 months.
Could you make a little clearer for me as I am a little confused?, probably my problem not yours
EU citizens have the right to travel to any other EU country without a visa and without completing registration documents for a period of 3 months. If they intend to stay more than 3 months, they should register their stay with the local authorities, usually with the police or the town hall, and provided any necessary paperwork. For example, students are to show their course curriculum and place of study, workers are to show a work contract and pensioners are to show medical insurance, either private or state provided, and sufficient funds to maintain themselves. If these are not provided, the member state can ask the applicant to leave the country.
EU rules distinctly lay down the difference between stays of up to 3 months and those of over 3 months.
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Ads
Sounds like we get to remain in then?
On a related note, I've just checked the currency markets this morning, and I see that the GBP vs EU has risen around 4% since the court case. Interesting.
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The essential factor of 'free movement' under the Maastricht Treaty is it gives the people of Europe rights. Legal rights to work and reside in another EU country as if it were their own.
The bureaucratic restrictions mentioned by mariedav are imposed by national governments not the EU. If the bill presented to the European Parliament providing for European citizenship goes through, those rights will be retained in the rest of the EU. British people even after Brexit will be included and this proposed bill will be separate to whatever the British can negotiate with the EU commission.
A great step forward if it goes through and well overdue. However healthcare entitlement will still have to form part of a negotiated settlement after Brexit.
rob: I think the ForeX markets have traded Sterling higher on the belief Trump will be more favourable to Britain than the EU when it comes to trade deals. Trump is against free trade and plans higher tariffs on anything imported into the USA. He believes it will create more US jobs. He will quickly learn that is only one side of the argument.
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 10/11/2016.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Trump is against free trade and plans higher tariffs on anything imported into the USA. He believes it will create more US jobs. He will quickly learn that is only one side of the argument.
If Trumps thinks by putting massive tariffs on goods from the likes of China and slowing, or even stopping them, he has to rethink just how many USA items have Chinese made parts in them, even his own Plane has better made cheaper Chinese parts in it then the USA made parts.
The USA car manufacturers incorporate so many Mexican made parts even that should / will make him have a rethink.
It's got to the point now that mess with China and china could say 'Okay go buy them somewhere else then'
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It's got to the point now that mess with China and china could say 'Okay go buy them somewhere else then'
That baz is rather his point. He wants everything the US imports to be made in the US. His platform policy of job creation will soon hit the buffers when he realises it cannot be done for the same price which eventually leads to the same problem - unemployment. Unless of course US workers will work for Chinese wages.
America has tried isolationist policies before they didn't work then and they won't work now.
Just to keep this on thread Trump supported Brexit although I'm sure he didn't really understand what it actually meant. So it's unlikely he will be favorable towards the EU in negotriation over TTIP. I think that's dead in the Atlantic now. The UK should benefit from that in the sense he may put the UK at the top of the list instead of the bottom where the UK was heading under the Democrats.
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 10/11/2016.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Mickyfinn said
However healthcare entitlement will still have to form part of a negotiated settlement after Brexit.
Healthcare agreements are agreed between individual states and have nothing to do with the EU other than being a prerequisite of membership of the EU.
If the UK wishes to re negotiate or continue reciprocal health care agreements with all other member states then that will be up to the UK and the other state. Remeber the UK has reciprocal healthcare agreements with other countires outside of the EU/EEA. The NHS website has a list
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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even his own Plane has better made cheaper Chinese parts in it then the USA made parts.
You sure?
Admittedly it was many years ago now, but when I worked in the industry getting a part certified for use in an aircarft cost many times the cost of the part itself. This made it uneconomic to use anything other than the manufacturer's parts. Unlike the car industry where replacements come from all over the place.
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I have a customer who is a director of an Airplane parts supply company that source and sell plane parts all over the world, not to far from me, and over coffee some months back we were joking about the failed rear wiper motor on another customers Volvo V70 which had the normal Volvo Logo and Volvo serial numbers on it, and also 'Made in China' and it wasn't a knock of part previously fitted, it would be assumed that this came out of the Volvo factory.
Anyway he went on to say I would be surprised how many plane parts come in from China and get sold to everywhere, he mentioned America and quite a few of its major airlines as one of the biggest buyers, never mentioned Trumps plane make and name of course, but Boeing is probably the same as another Boeing, he then went on to say how well many of the parts were made, and top quality, and a lot cheaper. So it's a safe bet that considering how many parts go to make a plane many are Chinese.
If you cast your mind back a good few years plus when the Americans did a raid into another country which failed and they had to abort the mission because, I think it was 3 helicopters that failed, the failure was down to second grade parts being fitted, China or not that time I have no idea.
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Tadd wrote
Healthcare agreements are agreed between individual states and have nothing to do with the EU other than being a prerequisite of membership of the EU.
Yes I worded my post a little clumsily but the essence is true. Although the UK has bilateral healthcare agreements in place with EU states they are there by virtue of the UK's membership of the EU. On Brexit new bilateral treaties will be required with these countries on the basis of the UK becoming a separate state. It may just be a legal formality but it depends what is negotiated and agreed.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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As soon as a EU citizen from any country in the EU becomes a full time resident in the UK ( after staying for 3 months ) ,the So called EU citizen automatically becomes the responsibility of the UK the country of origin does not pay the UK a penny for N HS care or unemployment benefit this was one of the big lies that the IN camp failed to tell us about.The UK can only claim for NHS care when a holiday maker from the EU has emergency care when on holiday in the UK so this makes you wonder why the UK is paying £3,500 to Spain for every expat of pensionable age that lives in Spain full time.
This message was last edited by windtalker on 10/11/2016.
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windtalker
Yes you are right and the diffenrce between Spain and UK is quite simple the rules laid down by each country NOT the EU.
If the current reciprocal heath care agreement between Spain (or any other country of the EU) and UK remains in force NOTHING will change unless the UK changes it own rules and polices on who is entitled to healthcare whilst in UK resident or not
Mickyfinn
On Brexit new bilateral treaties will be required with these countries on the basis of the UK becoming a separate state. It may just be a legal formality but it depends what is negotiated and agreed.
Why?
It will be for the individual countries to decide and they may just as easily decide to keep in force the current agreements they have.
The agreements are not under the control or authority of the EU and wil not automatically cancel or become null and void on Brexit, they are agreed between Spain (and other EU states) and the UK indepedantly which also meets EU membership obligations. There is no reason, obligation or requirement other than a will of either party to cancel renegotiate etc. Maybe the UK will want to cancel renogotiate etc who knows
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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There are three types of spare parts for aircraft.
Original manufacture
Approved
Fake and recycled
BA uses only OEM parts for safety related systems.
Apparently there are a lot more Approved parts available than there used to be. I have looked up approved part manufacturers and they appear to be based almost exclusively in the USA. The problem in using approved parts is that the orignal manufacturer will deny any responsibility in the event of failure in a system where they are employed.
Fake parts should not be employed at all but there are 2nd hand and fake parts on the market with convincing documentation.
The CAA in the UK seems to be a lot tighter on checking the documentation of operators than the FAA is in the US.
China is producing increasingly sophisticated aircraft as the years go by. It has gained knowledge by deals with European and US manufacturers. Short term deals have led to the creation of a major competitor.
So it looks as if their are few Chinese spares in aircraft built in the EU or America but China is becoming a force to be reconed with for new aircraft. Some manufacturers may of course source parts from china and badge them as their own.not sure how this can meet the approvals process though.
It is clear that China intends to become a major supplier of whole aircraft in the future and a competitor for European manufacturers Brexit or no Brexit.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 10/11/2016.
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