| The Comments |
baz- Losing 10 plus billions a year I can see why they wont miss us.
It's not a question of missing Britain. Simply put the EU will just eat less cake. That’s what nations do. The direction towards a Federal Europe will continue. The EU will adjust, consolidate and strengthen its relationships elsewhere.
Britain on the other hand faces separatism from Europe for good. If you study the history of separatism throughout the ages, no good came of it. The most successful nations on the planet are those that are united and can overcome their differences and difficulties together because of an overarching political consensus of shared values and direction.
Brexit has shown Britain is divided. Their union with other countries like Scotland and Northern Ireland and even Wales is tenuous. 48% of British people want to remain in Europe. How do the countries political leaders plan to appease that resentment that will fester and grow?
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 23/03/2017.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
0
Like
|
The collective countries of communism, the USSR didn't fair very well, did they? I see the EU becoming less of a Federal Union, and more of a Soviet style, with Germany at the centre, much like Russia was (is)? Merkel unilaterally invited a million migrants into the EU, and got pissed off when other Members wouldn't take their 'fair share', and even started to put up physical barriers.
2
Like
|
Comparing Stalinist communisim with a democratic EU is about as far fetched as I can imagine. I think your arguments have no merit.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
1
Like
|
The empire that Britain developed has resulted in a commonwealth, where the member. Ountries have an excellent relationship. This elevates the way Britain is viewed around the globe.
Previous unions like the soviet states and other empirical unions like a Roman Empire, Otterman empire, Spanish conquests, Portuguese conquests etc. Have things in common, they had their time and began to break up because they had not use anymore and were unfair regimes.
The EU and the Arab league will also have their day don't you think? As George Harrison said, all things must pass.
Saying the EU will not miss the financial input of the second largest contributor, and comparing it to eating less cake is perhaps playing with other comments that try and make sense of prior posts, by adding a comment that doesn't make any sense?
_______________________
Best wishes, Brian
3
Like
|
"The EU, like the old Soviet Union, is a geopolitical entity based on an ideology. Both enterprises began rupturing when reality stood at sharp odds with the ideological goals they professed. That is what prompted protesters as soon as they had the opportunity to express their own opinions and to demand that the authorities either fulfill their promises or step down.
Soviet ideology promised equality, justice, a higher living standard, and greater economic development than in the “capitalist world.” In reality, though, Soviet citizens experienced shortages of goods, unfair distribution, rule by a privileged class of political elite, and a significantly lower living standard and level of development than in the West.""
Alexander Lukin
0
Like
|
Soviet ideology was doomed to failure among other things because it was based on a command economy and was a vicious dictatorship without the rule of law.
The EU is a nation state collective based on freely entered treaties and a pooled sovereignty of democratic nations whose system must satisfy all acknowledged democratic values.
To even compare the two with each other is a travesty of language and thought.
The EU has brought unparalleled post war peace and prosperity to its member states populations. Its ideology of a federal Europe is only a political aim so long as that carries the consent of its people.
Britain was a long standing opponent to that and now it’s people have chosen a separatist path using their sovereign rights so to do. I support that principle although believe it is a bad decision.
A federal European State is a little closer now and I support the ideal. I can write that because the EU has freedom of speech unlike the Soviet Union who would cart me off to Siberia for saying it.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
0
Like
|
Crikey, how bizarre is this getting?
i didn't read anyone say the EU and the USSR should be compared as like minded political ambitions, I only read the comparison of the way they may come apart, which can be acceptable as a statement.
The EU started as a peaceful union of states, from an idea of a post war Winston Churchill suggestion. It developed into a trade state with the common market. The UK wanted to join almost from the off, but general DeGaul opposed us joining with their Vito. From memory they were scared our trade would overshadow theirs and the farmers were very reticent.
After we joined, the EU became a bit of a monster with a more federal overpowering stance, and the UK was fed up of this over a long period of time.
Then we voted to leave. It's a fairly simple short history, I don't think we need to be involved in too much dogma twisting other people's words around to develop an argument that doesn't fit the thread.
_______________________
Best wishes, Brian
3
Like
|
Sadly, by picking the Brexit option the UK is making itself more marginal. There was the British Empire that is gone. There was the British Commonwealth now it is just the Commonwealth and the UK holds no more sway than the poorest and smallest of countries do, less than a third now see the Queen as their monarch. There was a time when the UK was a nation that was seen as a place to be proud of if you valued helping the poor, the weak, the downtrodden but somehow we lost that. Our moral highground has been bulldozed under by our whinging about immigrants.
We had to work hard to get into the EU, other countries feared us for our trading capabilities, but we would not accept the Euro or any sense of European Federalism. If we had we would be as likely to be at the centre of the EU as Germany is, but that is not what we wanted to be.
The UK might just fall apart. Have we had our pinacle moments in history already and are witnessing the final contractions back to merry Olde England and Associates.
It might not be anything to worry about really, it is just rather sad.
There is no shortage of pride or loyalty on either side of Brexit, but the belief that Brexit is going to launch us into a new Era of British supremacy in the world is a fantasy. We cannot relive the past. Nor are we going to command the centre of the world stage outside of the EU. We are simply too small; smart, perfectly formed but dainty. We can't compete with the US of A or Russia or China or the EU and many others are going to run past us as we drag our feet.
We aren't going to vanish or disappear into obscurity, we are just going to fade into the background like others have before us...shame really.
1
Like
|
Crikey. Even more off thread comments.
Who wants Britain to rule the waves again? Haha. That's laughable.
All that's happening is that Britain has made a decision to leave the EU. Get a grip lads!
No spitfires, no armada battles, no industrial revolutions.
We have a scrap on our hands to get out of this club and negotiate some way of not being taken for a ride. We have some work to do in building our future, we have to keep our friendships and to show everyone who is watching, that we are the best.
Hey, done it before, let's do it again 🙂
_______________________
Best wishes, Brian
1
Like
|
Germany runs Europe without firing a shot. It forces far weaker partners to stay in a currency zone that is crippling them, and uses its economic muscle to dictate immigration and other key policies.
2
Like
|
That's fairly accurate Jarvi.
_______________________
Best wishes, Brian
1
Like
|
"A fascinating and extensive poll published this week shows that the Government’s Brexit aims are solidly mainstream – and expose the Remainers as the real extremists. NatCen interviewed 2,322 people last month.
They found that 68 per cent of voters are clear that they want free movement to end. That should surprise no one since it was a central tenet of the Leave campaign – despite the Remainers’ attempts now to pretend that we can carry on much as before with a soft Brexit. Voters have a much more sophisticated understanding of the implications of Brexit than the Remainers, who portray the decision to leave as a desire to pull up the drawbridge.
First, the poll shows that the crucial issue is control. Even a majority of Remain voters (58 per cent) say that potential migrants from the EU should be treated in the same way as non-EU migrants.
In other words, that they should simply have to comply with the same rules as everyone else.
That’s not saying no to immigration, it’s saying we should be able to control it. But as well as being clear that we have to be able to decide for ourselves the level of immigration, the poll also shows that an overwhelming majority – 88 per cent – want to keep free trade with the EU when we leave.
This is of course to the letter what the Government will be seeking in negotiations. Typically the Remainers say it’s not possible – using the deliberately misleading argument that you can only have free trade with the EU if you’re in the single market.
But the point which voters instinctively understand is that we can be outside the control of Brussels but still have free trade with the EU – if we are able to reach agreement.
Clearly the word “if” is the most important in that sentence but that’s a very different argument from the Remainer idea that a so-called soft Brexit means in effect staying in the single market. The Remainers strut around as if they alone understand the real world and Leavers are small-minded racists.
It didn’t need a poll to expose how wrong they are but this poll does exactly that. It shows that Leave voters – and most Remainers too – want a vibrant, modern, globally trading Britain. And that we will get that when we leave the EU.
Daily Express
0
Like
|
Javi - Germany runs Europe without firing a shot. It forces far weaker partners to stay in a currency zone that is crippling them, and uses its economic muscle to dictate immigration and other key policies.
More British nationalistic insular nonsense. It's ideas and a mindset like that which started WW1. The German Kaiser believed something similar about Britain.
Germany is a successful industrial country and the largest economy in Europe. It has a democratic federal system designed by the allies after conflict left it in ruins. It contributes the largest share to the EU budget and shoulders many burdens including NATO, overseas aid and housing refugees from wars.
Eurozone countries remain in the Euro out of choice because it suits their political vision of a united Europe. Germany actually tried to get Greece to leave the Euro during its financial troubles. Greece refused after the people voted to remain in it.
The truth is any country or individual who is successful in life gets accusations such as this thrown at it. It’s the way people are. Petty jealousy is not an attractive human trait.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
1
Like
|
Mickey-More British nationalistic insular nonsense. It's ideas and a mindset like that which started WW1. The German Kaiser believed something similar about Britain.
you really do like to take things out of context to try and make points that attack posts rather than try and answer the points that are raised. WW1 started in the Hungarian region (look up Frank Ferdinand). Germany and Britain were strong allies with the royal houses completely intertwined, Britain were very reluctant to go to war with their neighbours after a bloody Crimean conflict and Germany had made inroads into Holland and Belgium and were attacking France by the time Britain took sides and fought.
Making points to support weak arguments is also a pathetic human trait.
Germany is a very strong economy full of hard working people, its economy is one above Britain in the amount it contributes to the EU. A very short post ago you were making the point that EU would just eat less cake, well us and Germany provide around a third of the cake, we must be successful too eh?
The central bank economy of the EU admitted members on the level of the Euro against each other's existing currency, Greece got it wrong and went in at too high a valuation.
Germany has demanded that they remain inside the Euro until they have paid down the debts of their social system in wich which they borrowed too much from the bank. They didn't say they can leave if they want, that's claptrap.
_______________________
Best wishes, Brian
1
Like
|
Since Germany is a major creditor of Greece they have every right to ask it to put their house in order.
Wolfgang Schäuble in effect presented Greece with an ultimatum: either it must enforce unpopular structural reforms or exit the bloc.
“Athens must finally implement the needed reforms,”
“If Greece wants to stay in the euro, there is no way around it – in fact completely regardless of the debt level.”
Bild am Sonntag. 4 December 2016.
That does not read like Germany is keeping countries in the Euro against their will.
I know how WW1 started but the Kaiser believed Britain was dominating the economy of not just of Europe but the entire world and consequently harming Germany's interests. That was why he was so keen to enter into a conflict. It was a contributing factor.
You support statements on here that are made without any evidence behind them. I will rebut them everytime. It's the sort of nonesense British people read in the tabloid press and the mindset of inaccuracy then become truths..
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
1
Like
|
That's strange, you quote from a foreign tabloid? And hers me who doesn't read tabloids at all.
Also, anywhere in that diatribe you quoted that says, we will let Greece off their debt? No
Also, does the quote from one person equate to a policy of the EU? No
do I support statements without facts, no, that's why I am dealing with your comments.
_______________________
Best wishes, Brian
1
Like
|
Why should Germany give Greece any 'haircut' on their debt? Why should the EU allow Britain to leave without settling it's financial obligations? Both questions and expectations are perfectly reasonable. Nothing to do with domination simply normal and sensible business practice.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
0
Like
|
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 24/03/2017.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
0
Like
|
Any country that remains part of the EU ...when the UK leave's the bloc is willingly taking part in protectionism and EU bloc domination of Europe ...smaller independent country's and associated member's of the EU bloc will have no option other than to become full member's due to the stronghold that the EU trading zone has on them.The UK government can see this ..now that so much has come to light post brexit referendum.
I personal voted OUT and have asked a few people that I know voted IN now that so much information is available on the hidden costs that politician's tried extremely hard to hide from the UK Tax payer on EU membership has been exposed would you still vote to stay IN or OUT and they all said they would now vote OUT
3
Like
|
None member European nations are queuing up to join the EU. The advantages for these nations far and away out shine any negatives. The perception that Europeans wish to leave is just plain wrong as the Dutch election demonstrated. The Europhile Macron is likely to be the next French president which will again strengthen the union further.
Brexit will put Britain out in the cold but if that's what a majority of the people want bring it on.
I wish you luck. Britain's going to need it.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
0
Like
|