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Just saw the BBC News. Just saw Boris J's interview/speeach/question time. He has devo lost the plot. Seriously EU Leavers, is he the best you can do? What a joke!
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If we vote to stay in the EU and we run out of money to make .social security / pension payments will the EU help us out with the short fall if not what will happen to the people that are expecting a pension after paying in to the system all their working lives the pensionable age seems to be getting higher every year the government say's this is because people are living longer and it is not the spongers from the EU draining the system dry.
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Well the EU helped Greece why would it not help the UK.
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WT, by increasing the female state pension age from age 60 to 66 (67 from 2026) along with the seemingly nominal male age increase, should ensure continuance of payments for many years.
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I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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Though not an EU member, Switzerland has negotiated special terms. For instance, Swiss citizens living in Spain can acquire Spanish residency giving them equal rights with Spanish nationals. Instead of throwing the baby out with the bath water perhaps the Brexit brigade should be highlighting more positive outcomes. Probably highlighted in other threads, but if you have been on an electoral role in the UK in the last 15 years you are eligible to be reinstated on that register and apply for either a proxy or postal vote. Knowing the Spanish postal system, we shall be applying for a proxy!!
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I'm sure the UK could and will secure rights of residency for its citizens in the event of a vote to leave. However they will have to be on a quid pro quo basis with the rest of the EU member states.
If you accept this referendum is about EU immigration that rather defeats the purpose of Brexit for the 'leave' camp. I am confused what the 'leave' camp actually think Brexit will achieve.
In practice it means a loss of power and influence in Europe and the rest of the world. All that without any real or tangible gain. I hear claims of a loss of UK sovereignty in the EU but does anyone really understand such abstract notion? I see no evidence of that despite the cobblers written in the tabloid newspapers. The Germans and French are among the most nationalistic nations on earth. Do they feel their ascendancy or nationhood is diminished? I think not.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Mickyfin the UK has know power or any influence in the EU Cameron went cap in hand and made some realistic proposals that would have sorted the abuse of our social security system by mainly Eastern Europeans, what he got from the EU was nothing the same answer to the other 72 proposals made by the UK over the last few years this is why the majority of the British public are pissed off with the EU if like me you can remember back when we called Great Britain we had shipyards/steelworks /farms /all the small industries now what have we got cheep shite imported from China .
This message was last edited by windtalker on 12/03/2016.
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Micky,
The French and Germans have been conquered/occupied far more times in the last 200 years than the UK has in the last 950, they may have more rousing national anthems than us but that is where their nationalism ends. The 'IN's' are making it very easy for the 'OUT's' to get themselves to the polling stations and vote against the plethora of insults that they are currently receiving from the Europhiles, who appear to welcome benefit migrants to our open/none existant borders. The 'OUT's' don't actually need to campaign as the 'IN's' are doing a sterling job for them. 
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I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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To be perfectly honest I think the EU project will be more successful without Britain involved. The community will miss their contributions of course but also the UK will no longer receive the financial or political benefits. It will in my view be a diminished nation.
I have lived in Europe half my life and as a consequence feel European, not British. Its an odd concept to many, I know. I have been very fortunate to have enjoyed the best Europe has to offer and experienced first hand the benefits and the solidarity of being part of a wider community.
I hope the UK will stay but if it does not the EU will go forward and prosper without the constant moaning and obstruction from across the Channel.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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mickyfinn
Well said and I also see myself as a european citizen first (I would really prefer a harmonious peaceful world with equality for all but............)
I see nothing special about being British and nothing to be proud of - far too many are selfish arrogant, greedy, brainwashed and live in the past
I am sure and confident the EU will surge forward long trem with or without the UK but the UK or EU out will be a long term disaster for the UK
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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I rest my case.
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I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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Mickfinn I think you have had a serious bump on the head the French don't like us the Spanish tolerate us and everywhere else in the EU Hate's. us this is why every country in the EU is closing its borders thay want to try a keep what's left of their identity they do not want to be classed as just another European with know identity I certainly don't Scotland for ever sturgen and salmond can go take a jump .
This message was last edited by windtalker on 12/03/2016.
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The 'us' being you windtalker.
In this debate there is a strange us and them concept. In fact the world is really a global village. If you travel widely you realise people are the same everywhere. They have the same emotions and the same aspirations.
Its political boarders and religious boundaries which separate the peoples of this planet. Remove them and humans can be given the tools to make a better world.
The EU is but a beginning.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Mickyfinn The( US) including you are tolerated ,you sound like you have a good head on your shoulders I think you would make a good diplomat ,have you ever considered this as a job the world could do with some one like you ,peace to mankind and all that your first job could be to enter in to peace talks with the IS and boco haram the only problem would be is that thay would cut your head off before you could say peace to all man kind wake up the coffee is burning.
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Would you impose these "ideals" on the people Mickyfinn? Good luck with that.
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Mickyfinn. You are wasting your time trying to talk sense to the 'outers' on this site. They lost the plot about 250 contributions back on this thread.
The idea of a being a big shout in Europe is lost on them. They would be much happier having a pint in The George in Alstonefield and remembering the good olde days and having a wall around England rather than looking forward.
The good news is they are seriously a minority in the referendum. The ins will have a vote. The outs will have a smaller vote and the undecideds will either not vote or vote for the status quo. By all means speak with passion but don't spend time on those that won't change. Concentrate on the undecideds.
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If we vote to stay in the EU and we run out of money to make .social security / pension payments will the EU help us out with the short fall
The EU helped Greece why not us?
When we were in the ERM (exchange rate mechanism) the EU central bank (read Germany) helped France out by buying Francs but the next year refused to help us out by buying sterling. This led to George Soros making billions out of us by speculating on Sterling and our eventual ejection from the ERM. Still, every cloud has a silver lining, we might have been in the common currency and in terrible trouble by now if we had not left the ERM. Leaving the ERM was the point at which the UK started the improvement which let us to outperform the rest of the EU.
The EU definitely helped Greece!!!!! massive debt, 60% unemployment and a government that has to do as Mrs Merkel says (a government elected on a ticket of not bowing to the EU).
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Seriously a minority? Latest polls have it 51% in and 49% out for those who didn't say don't know.
Add in the undecideds (or not saying) and there's a 13% chance of a vote either way. And we all know how good the polls were in the last GE, don't we?
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You are wasting your time trying to talk sense to the 'outers' on this site.
Because the 'outers' have common sense on thier side.
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The 'IN's' remind me of a Welsh left wing head teacher mate of mine, who couldn't understand why folk couldn't take Kinnock screaming "We're Alright" over and over again like a demented idiot at Sheffield Arena to their hearts, I suppose that some are very easily convinced. What has been asked of the EU at Thrush Central is to stop shipping refugees/benefits migrants over the channel and to cease insisisting that we pay full UK benefits to them, we also quite like the idea of keeping serial killers behind bars, hardly the holy grail is it?
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I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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