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12 Mar 2017 9:20 PM by perrypower1 Star rating in Derbyshire/Fuerteven.... 647 posts Send private message

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bobaol, there is no point arguing with the likes of roberta8696 or hugegarden.  They havee not got a sense of smarts between the two of them which is obvious from not only their last posts but all of their posts on this site.  But.  I would hate to see either leave because it makes great comic relief so close to red nose day!!!





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12 Mar 2017 9:33 PM by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1833 posts Send private message

Roberto -If you cant cope with the flux of the exchange rate its only you to blame, for leaving the UK,

This thread is now just getting very silly. 

 

 



_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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12 Mar 2017 9:53 PM by bobaol Star rating. 2253 posts Send private message

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Rot and double rot. I worked for 42 years and paid National Insurance and tax for all that time. I still pay nearly £4000 a year in tax to the UK government. If you write to the Chancellor and ask him to give me all the contributions I paid over those years plus stop charging me tax then I will give up my state pension (which is going to raised the tax I already pay by some £600 in UK).

So, over a lifetime at current money, a person who has paid tens and tens of thousands of pounds into an insurance system has no right to any payment just because he's moved to Torremolinos yet a dole bludger or SE Asian who goes to UK to live and has never paid a penny into anything gets everything going?
Bloody Little Englander attitude if I might say.

 





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12 Mar 2017 10:12 PM by mariedav Star rating in Ciudad Quesada. 1220 posts Send private message

Oh, dear. I very rarely look at this board anymore due to the round and round it goes syndrome and the ridiculous things that people come out with. But I must reply to giving up your pensions. Robert8696, I worked as a nurse from age 19 until I retired at 62. We then moved to Spain. In all those years, I started paying 6% of my pay into my NHS pension which rose to 8% in the final 8 years or so. I also paid national insurance contributions for my whole working life. Are you now seriously saying I should give up my pension (the Lord only knows how much I paid in on top of taxes) and claim from Spain, a country where I haven't paid in anything towards a pension? I can't remember when I've heard anything so ridiculous in all my life (oh, and my NHS pension is also taxed in UK as I worked for a local authority towards the end). Please tell my you're not thinking of moving to Spain (or any other place in the EU). There are enough pontificating BOFs in our local pub as it is.





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12 Mar 2017 10:39 PM by robertt8696 Star rating in Midlands, UK. 479 posts Send private message

Mariedav, if you wish to know the truth about me, yes i am thinking of leaving the UK, and i have done a lot of prior research, and if and when i do, i will finance my existence from out of my own pocket, and what i have in mind is WORK, even though i will be nearly of pensionable age, and that work will generate me a living income for very little input on my behalf other than the management of my business, the same as it would be in the UK. This being the case there is not going to be a dependence on a UK state benefit for a living. I started my working life with no income, and i will not end it depending on a dwindling resource which even without an exchange rate gets less and less each year. Do you hear me complaining about it?





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12 Mar 2017 10:42 PM by robertt8696 Star rating in Midlands, UK. 479 posts Send private message

Oh, and another point of it is if you have anything like enough to live on with a UK state pension all i can say is either your pension is fantastic or you can live on a subsistance amount, whichever these days is not really enough to exist on, so dont rely on it.

Oh, and whats a BOF? seems you are trying to be as provocative as Mickeyfinn and Perrypower. There are rules on provocative and abusive attitude on this forum, and besides its quite pointless as i have much more tolerance than anything you could ever provoke out of me. 

 


This message was last edited by robertt8696 on 12/03/2017.



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12 Mar 2017 11:12 PM by robertt8696 Star rating in Midlands, UK. 479 posts Send private message

Bobaol, assuming your pension does not reach past the personal tax threshold (most state pensions do not) that means at around £4000 a year tax payment to the UK, you must be earning an income of at least £20,000 above your state pension £4000 being 20% of the total of £20000 giving you an income of £16000, which is far more than a basic pension. Something somewhere does not add up.





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12 Mar 2017 11:16 PM by tteedd Star rating in Hertfordshire & Punt.... 990 posts Send private message

Tteedd OK let's have a compromise the UK will accept access to the single market and freedom of movement .....If we can have a controlled breading program like they have in China.

Windtalker

Moi - Horror of horrors - I think you are mixing me up with Tadd

Reminds me of my youth when my boss mixed me up with a useless item and I refused to sign my annual report!





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12 Mar 2017 11:23 PM by bobaol Star rating. 2253 posts Send private message

bobaol´s avatar

You don't do reading posts very well, do you. I mentioned other pensions I paid into. Two government, 1 private, 1 state. You may not be the only one who made provisions for his later years (as I'm nearly 70 I think I can count myself in on that). I also pay almost 2k to the Spanish tax man as well but, then, I did make provisions. On top of that my savings which now earn a derisory amount in interest and have to pay taxes on but I didn't pee it all up a wall when I was younger (well, quite a lot of it I did but that's another matter). It's rather more than the figures you stated but I started a pension scheme when I was 18 so I think Its now time to enjoy it. 

Of course, according to you, I could get a job but I doubt climbing ladders to communications masts or humping hods of bricks around would be suitable for me at the moment. 

So. yes, the figures do add up. 





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12 Mar 2017 11:35 PM by robertt8696 Star rating in Midlands, UK. 479 posts Send private message

Bobaol, in your case you are an exception to the other moaners on this thread, and i applaud you for making preparations, though i dont know about hod carrying! Like i said, the sort of work i envisage will be nothing more to me than management, other people will do the hard, dirty work for me. Dont hang on to the cash enjoy it while you have time ! Cheers!





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12 Mar 2017 11:37 PM by bobaol Star rating. 2253 posts Send private message

bobaol´s avatar

Off to Barbados tomorrow. Spending the Kids Inheritance.

 





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12 Mar 2017 11:43 PM by robertt8696 Star rating in Midlands, UK. 479 posts Send private message

thats the spirit!





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13 Mar 2017 8:14 AM by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1833 posts Send private message

“Sixteen million Britons wanted to stay in the EU and 17 million wanted to leave, but there exists a small and very energetic political group made up of opaque and impatient people who are driving the process and who speak as though half the country were the entire country,” he said. “It’s also serious because Great Britain works on the basis of a parliamentary democracy and not through plebiscites, which remind me of the Third Reich.”

“Their militant wing, the tabloid press, has started to look into the lives of the judges who rule that Brexit could result in the loss of human rights to see whether they’re homosexual or something. It’s reminiscent of Robespierre and the terror of the French revolution. The air in my country is very foul.”

 Seventeen million against 16 million. Each full of contempt for the other. And on this basis and unlike any other country in the world, we are about to redraft our constitution and much else besides.”

Ian Russell McEwan CBE FRSA FRSL

 


This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 13/03/2017.

_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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13 Mar 2017 9:10 AM by Tadd1966 Star rating in Los Montesinos. 1754 posts Send private message

17 milion vs 16 million - still divisive

The 17 million will be further split when the the deal is complete becaue they are divided now on what out means.

Some want a hard brexi some want soft brexit some just want migrants out of the UK and some really don't have a clue what they want and guess what none know what they are going to get



_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”



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13 Mar 2017 9:29 AM by baz1946 Star rating. 2327 posts Send private message

 if you wish to know the truth about me, yes i am thinking of leaving the UK, and i have done a lot of prior research, and if and when i do, i will finance my existence from out of my own pocket, and what i have in mind is WORK, even though i will be nearly of pensionable age, and that work will generate me a living income for very little input on my behalf other than the management of my business, the same as it would be in the UK. This being the case there is not going to be a dependence on a UK state benefit for a living. I started my working life with no income, and i will not end it depending on a dwindling resource which even without an exchange rate gets less and less each year. Do you hear me complaining about it?

Robert I have been reading your posts and especially your bits about UK pensions, you say you are thinking of leaving the UK, to where ever, does that mean considering of how you feel about UK pensions regarding folk leaving and still claiming the UK pension that you wont be claiming your UK State pension then? I am not asking about your finances and if you have enough money to live on.





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13 Mar 2017 10:01 AM by ads Star rating. 4134 posts Send private message

Ministers believe MPs will reject the two changes made to the Brexit bill in the House of Lords when they debate it for the second time later.

Peers want to guarantee the rights of EU citizens in the UK and ensure Parliament has a vote on any deal.

The EU Withdrawal Bill could complete its final stages if both Houses of Parliament agree the text of the bill.

PM Theresa May could then trigger Article 50, which formally starts the Brexit process, as early as Tuesday.

BBC chief political correspondent Vicki Young said she thought it likely that MPs would overturn the Lords' amendments to the bill, and did not expect peers to try to block the bill any further.

This could mean it is all "done and dusted by midnight" on Monday, she said.

Both the House of Commons and House of Lords will debate and vote on the bill on Monday. MPs will go first, before it is passed to peers to agree or disagree with the decisions made.

The bill travels back and forth between the two chambers until both sides agree.

Labour has urged the prime minister to consider keeping the "really important" Lords amendments - adding that EU citizens in the UK had been "left in limbo", waiting to hear if they would have the right to stay.

If MPs do reject the amendments, Parliament could sit through the night to try to reach an agreement, and time has also been set aside on Tuesday and Wednesday.

Once it is agreed, the bill will go for Royal Assent, after which Mrs May can formally tell the rest of the EU that she is ready to start negotiating.

'Perfectly OK'

In an interview on BBC One's Andrew Marr Show on Sunday, Brexit Secretary David Davis insisted the UK would be prepared if it has to leave the EU at the end of the two-year negotiating process with no deal in place with the other 27 nations.

He appealed to MPs not to "tie the prime minister's hands" over Parliament getting a final vote on the deal and on EU citizens' rights in the UK.

Mrs May has said Parliament will get a vote, but some MPs and peers want a stronger commitment to give them a more "meaningful" say - and to be able to potentially send her back to the negotiating table in Brussels.

Conservative MP Nicky Morgan, a Remain campaigner, told BBC Radio 4's Today programme seeking such an assurance was not about blocking Brexit.

"David Davis and everybody else know that Parliament will find a way to have a vote. Isn't it better that the government acknowledges that today...?" she said.

Ms Morgan added: "If the prime minister wants a united party behind her this is a simple reassurance that can be given by ministers at the despatch box that will have the effect of me and my colleagues supporting the government on this."

WTO rules

Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson told ITV's Peston on Sunday that "no deal" would be "perfectly OK", and the consequences were not "as apocalyptic as some people like to pretend".

But Conservative former deputy PM Lord Heseltine, who was sacked as an adviser last week after rebelling, dismissed his comments as "rubbish", saying many Conservatives felt "betrayed".

Mrs May has said she would rather take the UK out of the EU with no deal rather than a "bad deal".

No deal would result in trade rules defaulting to World Trade Organisation standards, meaning the UK and EU would be obliged to apply to each other the tariffs and other trade restrictions they apply to the rest of the world.

line

Analysis By Vicki Young, BBC chief political correspondent

Conservative MPs are looking for further verbal guarantees from ministers over the exact nature of the parliamentary vote they've been promised on any Brexit deal Theresa May negotiates.

Labour are telling their MPs to vote against the government and around 10 Tory backbenchers have defied orders from their party managers in previous votes on this bill, but a rebellion on that scale won't be enough to defeat the government and ministers aren't expected to make concessions.

All eyes will then move to the Lords where the Liberal Democrats have promised to keep the pressure on the government - but Labour peers seem more likely to back down, so by tonight the rebellion could have melted away.

_______________________________________

Makes you wonder if the debate re the economic aspects re WTO analysis ( the fallback if no deal is achieved) is a repeat of the fear campaign that occurred in the lead up to the referendum vote, and whether the Brexit economists analysis is more reliable?

Strange how those who were espousing the doom and gloom scenario of the immediate aftermath following the vote to Brexit and got it so wrong, so quickly forget such uncomfortable realities, and yet continue to berate the  same economists who now suggest that the WTO option is not to be feared, if negotiations fail to achieve mutually acceptable outcomes.

Perhaps we should not be so dismissive and reflect upon the fact that the Brexit economists analysis was indeed correct?





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13 Mar 2017 10:19 AM by ads Star rating. 4134 posts Send private message

Re pensions, isn't it the case that even for those in countries such as Australia and Canada, that expats still receive their pension, but don't get the index linking? Wouldn't this be the fallback position if no deal is achieved?

Shouldn't we all therefore be pushing for a good mutually acceptable deal instead of reacting to the constant fear and divisive tactical ploys to undermine the democratic process?





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13 Mar 2017 11:21 AM by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1833 posts Send private message

The divisions in British society the referendum vote revealed will not heal after Brexit. Politics in the nation used to be clearly defined once as left and right with a soggy center ground.

Now there are globalists and nationalists each of whom resent the other. People are struggling now to relate to who actually represents their interests in government. Some people feel left behind, others feel totally abandoned. Post Brexit political parties are going to have to re-establish their identity with the people in a way which has never really been done before.

The Labour Party is no longer the authentic voice of the working class just a reduced London centric leftist intelligencia. The Conservative Party believes it has the voice of they who seek to make Britain more of an island than it is geographically. The Liberal Democrats seem to offer a natural home for remainers who believe Britain should be politically part of something other than just a national identity.

I doubt Britain actually will ever be the same country politically after it leaves the EU. I agree speculating on it’s likely economic future is fairly pointless because there are so many unknowns and brick walls waiting round the corner.

One thing we all can be sure of is the high water mark of British economic prosperity has now probably been reached. Brexit will bring enormous difficulties and perhaps with luck maintain the country’s economic performance. It will not by any stretch of the imagination surpass the actuality of the present. How could it? It is not in the EU's interest to hand Britain a golden platter.

It will not reduce migration only being poorer will do that. Yes Whitehall will have all the power restored to them but is that really such a good thing?

In the end come the 2020 election every Brit needs to ask themselves what sort of country they want for themselves and their children post Brexit. Look every political party in the eyes and say is this what we really want our nation to be?

I am content to live out my days within the European Union as a French or European citizen. I am lucky. I will have the detached advantage of peering over the channel watching Britain try and make it's own way in the world. I wish the country well, I really do. 

 



_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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13 Mar 2017 12:26 PM by ads Star rating. 4134 posts Send private message

Mickeyfinn,

You observe " It is not in the EU's interest to hand Britain a golden platter." so can I ask is it not in the EU's interest to find a mutually beneficial deal?

You also observed "every Brit needs to ask themselves what sort of country they want for themselves and their children".....May I suggest that this was already reflected in the referendum result, in so much as many were discontent with the pace and significant impact from change that had arisen from SWIFT UNCONTROLLED migration etc that was impacting their lives and environment for all the reasons identified within this thread, and this lack of control and social impact in such a relatively swift period of time left them understandably feeling extremely vulnerable and protective of not only their immediate environments, but also the genuine concerns to retain a tolerant and well integrated society.

I still stress that these vulnerabilities and social impacts and lack of comprehension on the EU bureaucrats part, for the need to review differentials in a more realistic manner, to review the pace of change and essential requirement for better forward planning and methods to best accommodate these factors should never be overlooked and social cohesion should be better prioritorised.

IMHO, a theoretical ideological mantra to achieve a "federal state" without due regard to such realities and practicalities that have arisen to date, alongside the need to consider the different cultural and social makeup of member states citizens does a disservice to all citizens of Europe. The speed of change, the lack of flexibility to respond effectively, the intransigent and at times alienating approach adopted by some powerful bureaucrats, which has led to unnecessary division and growing unrest across Europe needs to be recognised and reflected in any forthcoming EU reform process.





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13 Mar 2017 12:43 PM by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1833 posts Send private message

ads - You observe " It is not in the EU's interest to hand Britain a golden platter." so can I ask is it not in the EU's interest to find a mutually beneficial deal?

That would be true ads if the Union was solely and economic one. It is not. It is first and foremost a political and social project designed to create a federal Europe. The economics are secondary but perhaps no less important in my view but I’m not a politician.

I will admit the British believed more in the former but Edward Heath always maintained he knew it was the latter right from the start.

Keeping the remaining 27 nations together after Brexit will be the primary focus of the EU Commission going forward. Britain will be out in the cold and it will feel the icy draft very soon.



_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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