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Hi Mickey.
Thanks for the NATO document, I havnt seen this before.
One of the things that comes up regularly in the partnership document is the key area of crisis management and co-operation.
I dont think there would be a more important or at least a more front line issue, than the chemical warfare accusations involving Syria right now.
The French are involved directly in the condemnation, as are UK and USA.
Has anyone seen evidence of the co-operation extending to these Syrian issues with the EU-NATO partnership at all?
Or does the partnership limit itself to information sharing and technical matters?
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Best wishes, Brian
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It is an interesting albeit scary prospect Mickey. Egypt has just called a three month State of Emergency. The world may yet find itself lining up on a Christian vs Muslim philosophy as the basis for a new major global conflict. It is hard to say where the UK would end up in such a predicament. I am disappointed that Washington seems to be pulling the strings on BJ.
For a nation so shouty about self determination and control it is not taking much for us to abrogate that position. There was a time when the Brits hated the Yanks. Now we seem to hate the EU and love the Americans. I hope we don't end up with no friends in a big bad world because as tough as we like to think we are without the Canucks, the Digger O Dooles and the Yanks we would not have survived WW2.
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The uk will likely continue to lead in faith and denomination matters Perry.
Last week the Muslim council of GB was invited by the catholic bishop in the uk to audience with the pope, inside the Vatican holy chambers, and his holiness met and discussed issues with them This being the first time any Muslim leaders had been inside the Vatican for any such meeting, ever.
Its such a clear friendship and leadership like this that sets such a multi faith and culture like the UK apart from the rest.
A very proud nation, with a very proud heritage, showing the world how to foster and promote peace. I wonder why no one else does these things?
I also wonder why it didn't make the tabloids on the front covers? Perhaps they only regard doom and gloom to be newsworthy
This message was last edited by briando55 on 09/04/2017.
This message was last edited by briando55 on 09/04/2017.
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Best wishes, Brian
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Perry, the Christians V the Muslims? If i was Muslim i would find that comment extremely offensive, but being Christian, and also tolerant, i do not find it affects me quite so extremely. I think you will find the greater part of Muslim society, the law abiding, non extremist Muslim would be justifiably offended to be tarred with the same brush as an extremist. The difference with Islam over Christianity is most Muslims just let the extremism continue unchecked, whereas the Christian society respond with violence as a cure for the unrest. I think if there was going to be a start of global conflict, in the last few years there has been plenty of events to provoke such war, and it has not happened yet.
I do not think as a country we hate the EU, or love the Americans, and i certainly dont see where this has any bearing on the UK leaving the EU. Besides the EU has as much problems with Islamic Extremists, look at Stockholm in the last 24 hours, and the many extremist events in France in the last couple of years. The EU has just as much as us to bind us together when it comes to terrorist activities in Europe with or without Brexit.
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PP,
I take great exception to you suggesting in this generalised fashion that Brexiteers " hate the EU".
Many are keen to make the EU bureaucrats more accountable not only for their policy making that has significantly impacted citizens but also to challenge when bureaucrats use behaviour that appears divisive and alienating, preferring to act in an aggressive manner against a member state excercising it's democratic right to exit the EU, as opposed to demonstrate a keeness to seek out mutually beneficial outcomes to the benefit of all.
That is not "hateful" but rightfully questioning a behaviour that has the potential to divide citizens and harm their best interests both sides of the channel.
Divisive alienating behaviour is the last thing we need in the lead up to negotiations and only adds further to citizen disillusionment.
This message was last edited by ads on 10/04/2017.
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Perry, Ads says, "Divisive alienating behaviour is the last thing we need in the lead up to negotiations and only adds further to citizen disillusionment." It is not only UK citizens who are disillusioned with the EU, it is also citizens in other European countries, the difference being they have not had the pleasure of a referendum they can show their displeasure in.
If other European nations had the luxury of such a referendum, i am sure the UK would not be the only country to be leaving the EU
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Ask the Dutch dairy cattle farmers what they think of the EU at the moment, about two years ago the Dutch government along with the EU told dairy farmers to produce more milk, so they bought more dairy cows, now the government complying with EU rules have told the dairy farmers they have to get rid of 2000 cows between them, kill them or try to sell them, because these same cows that are producing more milk, as told to, also produce more waste, and the waste cannot be used because of a chemical in it is destroying the water ways and fields.
The farmer they spoke with was disgusted beyond words with the EU, she is in danger of losing her farm and living.
Not an April fools day joke or a load of 'B******T'
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Thought I would supply a link to a report that provides details of my last post.
http://www.catholic-ew.org.uk/Home/News/Imams-and-Pope
i know there has been some comment recently in quarters that sometimes i don't support things I say, the people saying this seem to use any excuse to deny facts and carry on with silly comments.
So I also wonder why such positive news as this is not picked up in the tabloids we read? And some people may be left with the impression that the world may be lining itself up for a 'Christian v Muslim philosophy' as PP has 'prophesied'.
PP wondered where the UK stood on this, and made points about a nation who hate, and claimed various silly references to previous wars as some guide to the current people of this nation.
Well here is an example of where the UK stands and how they are working towards solutions and peace. Where are the EU and the rest of the world in such matters PP?
The tabloids will report on minorities of people who will sell their papers for them, we need to make sure we are more able to identify idiotic copy and see it for what it is. The costa chip papers of tomorrow.
This message was last edited by briando55 on 10/04/2017.
This message was last edited by briando55 on 10/04/2017.
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Best wishes, Brian
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There is no actual conflict between Islam and Christianity both religions live side by side with each other. The world is not re-living the middle ages. Religion rightly in modern western culture has a minor place not a dominate one as in Middle East cultures.
What is going currently on is a vicious extremist terrorist campaign using a dominant religion to recruit and alienate ordinary people of differing beliefs towards each other. The purpose is political advantage and power. I think most level headed people can understand that.
Just as there are consistent attempts to discredit the European Union with political propaganda, fake news and skewed truths. No political or religious organisation is perfect. It fact it has now almost become a rite of passage to destroy what previous generations have built. Like religion the idea that an organisation as large and complex as the EU could satisfy everyone is an impossible dream. It gets things right and wrong, often in equal measure.
The power of anti-EU propaganda worked its nefarious purpose into the minds of a significant section of the UK public.
It wasn’t done by bombs or terrorism but with more subtle methods which actually work. Sin Fein and ETA have both realized in recent years that the way to win hearts and minds is not through violence but through social media propaganda and tabloid journalism.
I have heard it said that many people voted for Brexit believing in ‘freedom’. That seems a strange concept since Britain never actually gave up any of its freedoms when they joined the EU. What the UK did was share their sovereignty with other European states for a greater good. In return the nation gained much at relatively little net cost.
Leaving will mean the UK gains nothing at enormous cost but that’s one of the consequence of believing in ideologies.
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 10/04/2017.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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It wasn’t done by bombs or terrorism but with more subtle methods which actually work. Sin Fein and ETA have both realized in recent years that the way to win hearts and minds is not through violence but through social media propaganda and tabloid journalism.
Leaving will mean the UK gains nothing at enormous cost but that’s one of the consequence of believing in ideologies.
Well Micky you have answered one of your own questions in your post......The fight with Islam wont ever be won because you cannot win against an ideology
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Mickeyfinn,
You say "Like religion the idea that an organisation as large and complex as the EU could satisfy everyone is an impossible dream. It gets things right and wrong, often in equal measure".
Well when you get things wrong you need an effective process in place to make those who make significant compromising "errors" to be accountable and fair, to listen to the voices of concerned citizens and be willing to correct failings and demonstrate a realistic commitment to reform those failing policies. The last thing you need is to create further concern by alienating those same citizens with dismissive rhetoric or demonstrate an intransigence to reform.
Those in power in the EU Commission have done a grave diservice to the EU by their failed and continuing practices that so sadly have created division, and what's even sader is that they appear not to have learned from their mistakes, but continue in this dogmatic and alienating fashion.
It's no way to represent the best interests of its citizens and we should all be finding common cause to find a better mutually beneficial way forward, where division and alienating rhetoric and vindictive aggresive measures that result in mutual harm are highlighted and challenged at every opportunity.
What is required is a far more consilliatory and timely approach that seeks a positive way forward post BREXIT, that breaks down barriers and unites in common cause, that tackles and prioritorises problem areas in a fair and flexible manner, that plans ahead and EFFECTIVELY evaluates the impact of policies and adequately responds when unforeseen irregularities occur, but swiftly addresses problems that have the potential to "harm" citizens before they cause unrest.
This message was last edited by ads on 10/04/2017.
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Ads the result of a giant political organisation (the EU) that doesnt do what you suggest is the withdrawl of the UK from that organisation. If things were attended to in proper fashion the UK would not have voted to leave, and there would be a lot of far more happy EU subjects in the EU.
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Baz i see your quote, " the waste cannot be used because of a chemical in it is destroying the water ways and fields."
I used to know a farmer many years ago who had a dairy herd and he complained to me one day that due to EU directives he could not muck spread on his land in winter as due to the land being frozen the muck would run off into the waterways and not be absorbed by the land. Another EU directive prevented him from spreading in the summer as the EU claimed that the effluent would soak down into the water table. His opinion? He shrugged his shoulders and said he would just spread it when he felt it was best for his land and farm.
Yet another example of stupid EU directives, two of 83,000.........
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Robert,
I fear that the current EU Commission leaders place citizens concerns too far down the pecking order, preferring to focus on ideological federalist aims, come what may, without any respect for the consequences in the interim periods.
A far more realistic flexible approach is required before citizens can say hand on heart that their best interests and ongoing conerns are being adequately listened to.
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ads
I fear that the current EU Commission leaders place citizens concerns too far down the pecking order,
The same could be said about UK politcians (and just about any country), this is not unique to the EU
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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ads.Well when you get things wrong you need an effective process in place to make those who make significant compromising "errors" to be accountable and fairIy agree
I completely agree and the UK could have contributed to that had the nation remained. As it will be the UK will have no further political influence on the largest economic market on it's doorstep.
Baz The fight with Islam wont ever be won because you cannot win against an ideology
Precisely the point of my post. You believe there is a conflict with the religion known as Islam. How did you arrive at that belief? There is not. The conflict is with political factional terrorists using that religion for its own purposes.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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And of those 83,000 directives, UK ministers were on the “winning side” 95% of the time, abstained 3% of the time, and were on the losing side 2%. Source is full facts org the UK's leading independent fact checking charity.
And in the 2% that the UK lost the vote on there were entire sectors of the U.K. that were opposed to the directive and were pleased that the UK did not win the vote.
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Perry.
Results on looking up full facts .org are as follows.
This site can’t be reached
fullfacts.org took too long to respond.
Try:
ERR_CONNECTION_TIMED_OUT
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Best wishes, Brian
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Micky.
I don't think the evidence is there to suggest that Islam and Christianity live side by side without conflict across the world, the medieval divisions are still entrenched in the two faiths.
I also don't think you can generalise about religion being rightly minor in the western world either. The USA is extremely strong in its Christian beliefs. The catholic countries around Europe, the west and the Americas in general are very strong in their beliefs (including Spain where we are posting much of our information),
ireland is very, very strong. So I think you need to broaden your personal horizons to make statements like this, it's a kind of blinkered view that may offend some religious people I think.
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Best wishes, Brian
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Brian,
try this link it works fine on all my machines. Happy to be your tech guy...
https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts-behind-claims-uk-influence/
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