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It took Canada 7 years of hard negotiations to arrive at CETA. The best estimate for the UK is similar or longer. Trade deals don’t just fall out of the sky. It takes a very long time to achieve them
And still you prattle on!!!!!
We have covered this at least twice before. Go back and read the comments.
The best estimate for a bilateral agreement could be weeks. It is the EU that is the problem.
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still a member of the EU and enjoys all the benefits
More previously covered prattle - for Benefits read Disadvantages.
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I agree that good news lifts the old spirits and it's important to remain optimistic but it would be wrong not to delve for the real facts in that process so that realistic solutions and compromises can hopefully be achieved.
As we have all witnessed half the trouble is gaining those facts and not be tempted to cherry pick to suit a political agenda, or an ideological aspiration or for that matter an unrealistic hope for reform. We should never be fearful to face uncomfortable realities.
IMHO the bottom line needs to focus far more on citizens needs and not to follow economic " solutions " that significantly compromise citizens best interests in that process. There has to be a better balance...
Many who voted Brexit I suspect are fighting not only to regain control but for a far better balance and realistic achievable goals, that build in a flexible arrangement to better deal with changing circumstances, that strive for mutual benefits and trade agreements, that improve their lives and not follow an ideological route that ultimately harms citizens interests in that process.
With a freedom that allows citizens to feel proud of their country and cultures but happy to respect others too.
Too little focus has been given to citizen's best interests by our politicians, with the need for a strong caveat of fairness and compassion, alongside wherever possible a good work ethic and self sufficiency , a balance that doesn't turn their backs on uncomfortable realities but strives to solve problems in a manageable timeframe, with the objective of improving lives rather than use citizens as scapegoats in an experimental political fashion, losing sight of the true impact on their lives.....
This message was last edited by ads on 22/11/2016.
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Britain's economy
Although I like to feel the remoaners squirming under all the good economic news when they promised instant doom. We should be a litle circumspect over the figures on growth. Much of this growth is because there are more people working in the UK which in turn is because there are more people in the UK. In an emergency we could only feed less than half our population. Growth though immigration is not what we need, it leads to all sorts of infrastructure problems. What we need is growth through increased efficiency and innovation. We have always been inovators and it would not be entirely bad to attract a few more innovators but attracting hoards of people just because conditions are bad elsewhere is not the way to go. We need to improve what we have.
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As a first I agree with you tteedd. The problem is the British economy requires across the range labour with new skilled and unskilled workers. Agriculture is a case in point. Farmers in Lincolnshire cannot recruit the field workers it needs from the existing population. Migrant workers allow food prices to remain stable. That is one small benefit of the existing situation. How will the population feel if vegetatbles and fruit are no longer affordable? If Sterling remains low agricultural imports from Spain will also go up.
The government I am sure are aware that simply banning EU migrant labour will not work at all. At least I hope so since David Davis represents a rural constituency in East Yorkshire. I'm hopeful pragmatic common sense will prevail in the Brexit negotiations, on both sides.
What’s required is improved local services so the presence of people from Europe does not cause any rupture of social cohesion. That requires public spending and perhaps this week we may see the start of some investment in social programs of this nature.
“Article 50 is a bit like The Bomb: best kept as an implicit threat.”
- Mats Persson, former special advisor to David Cameron
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 22/11/2016.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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David Davis represents a rural constituency in East Yorkshire.
In an area of the highest unemployment in the UK. There is something structurally wrong when areas of high migrant labour are also areas of high indigenous unemployment.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 22/11/2016.
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Tadd1966 the footballer you a referring to comes from the Ivory coast, he is in the EU on a temporary visa ,so he would have to apply for a UK visa as a subject of the Ivory Coast all the more reason for border control.we do have passport check's in the UK just the same as Spain .
This message was last edited by windtalker on 22/11/2016.
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PSG apparently wanted us to presume him to be innocent as he is appealing. Bit of a cheek that, seeing that under the French system there is no presumption of innocence even before conviction.
In general I am all in favour of keeping all convicted criminals out wherever they come from. Earlier this year a Polish chap with a conviction for assault committed murder. That is one woman who should still be alive.
I've just done a search to find more details on the above and find a litany of crimes committed by foreigners, mostly criminals let in from the EU. Many other cases of murder rape and assault by convicted east Europeans. Criminals like the footballer from outside the EU are frequently denied entry.
We have just had the prison officers stopped from taking industrial action when it is clear they have a right to be worried. Sending home the 25% of the prison population represented by foreigners would help their situation. Barring those already convicted would protect the innocent from assault or worse.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 22/11/2016.
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That footballer assaulted a copper, had he bashed an old Lady he might have been able to stay.
Anyone notice how many Turkish mens barbers opening up over the past couple of years, they have no automatic right of entry, work visas perhaps, I have a customer who works for a government office and he is now checking up on these as it's been noticed that every time one opens it has 3/4/5 Turkish barbers working in them, couple of months down the line seems the faces change for another 3/4/5, so I guess the others go back.
One prison near by has different floors named after the nationalities, did we ever have this for say, East Anglian's, Scottish, Yorkshire people?
Suppose this will be said that it's nothing to do with the EU....Well then read again.
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I see Richard Branson has offered to bank roll Tony Blair in a bid to overturn Democracy ,by trying to block the Brexit it is this sort thing that is really pissing people off that voted out ,and for that very reason you will not stop the Brexit or overturn a Democratic vote do you want to live in a dictatorship.
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I see Richard Branson has offered to bank roll Tony Blair in a bid to overturn Democracy ,by trying to block the Brexit it is this sort thing that is really pissing people off that voted out ,and for that very reason you will not stop the Brexit or overturn a Democratic vote do you want to live in a dictatorship.
If this goes ahead it proves beyond all doubt that branson and blair have no concerns for the peoples vote, or what the people of the UK voted for, if they had they would have waited for the judges and courts decision then took legal action, as it is they both think they can govern and control the UK public. Heaven help us all if blair ever gets any say on the UK ever again.
This could be the very worse news for the UK, and I don't mean only for the leave vote, out of the pair of them who's the biggest snake?
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Windtalker
The point is border controls exist and under the control of the uk i.e. not open or uncontrolled etc as some have been shouting about
where the footballer comes from is irrelevant really
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Tadd1966 their is not any border control for EU citizens only passport checking EU citizens are fee to come and go as they like including criminals like Murder's/Paedophiles/ and those that have committed Rape are all free to wonder unchecked all over the EU what a crazy EU no comprise rule this is, unlike none EU citizens that needs a visa and a passport. A reason for the visit Health insurance /enough money to support them during their visit and no criminal record before entry to the UK the same applies for all EU countries.
This message was last edited by windtalker on 23/11/2016.
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tteedd wrote:
In an area of the highest unemployment in the UK. There is something structurally wrong when areas of high migrant labour are also areas of high indigenous unemployment.
Absolutely wrong. The reason is state welfare provides a relatively comfortable living without working. If you work benefits get reduced. It is also a sad fact that areas of the UK with the highest unemployment rates voted for Brexit.
There is a dynamic here which I accept I don’t fully understand. Cutting through the prejudice and the misinformed to discover the truth is difficult.
There is an obvious belief among unemployed people that migrant workers take the jobs they think should be theirs. However that is not borne out by the research I have read. Employers find it difficult to recruit suitable skilled and unskilled labour in these same areas, so encourage EU migrants to move there. Salaries may be low which makes it uneconomic for the welfare claimant but why then resent others who will do the jobs?
Perhaps these people believe if migrants were not present employers would pay higher salaries. However that is also a misconception. Employers can only recruit workers at an affordable price or they go out of business. Their products become uncompetitive.
These are some of the problems and consequences for Britain the nation will face on Brexit. People may want an end to free movement but do they also understand the benefits that brings helps to pay their welfare cheques?
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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windtalher
the fact that passports are checked is control of borders. Even EU citizens can be refused entry if there are any issues found by the UKBF during the UK's border control checks
The borders between Spain and France or France and Italy for example have no border controls and no checks are carried out
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Any EU citizens that are refuse entry into the UK ,are usually wanted for crime's that they have committed in their country of origin hence the passport check ,so if you are not wanted by the police your passport gives you freedom of movement in all 28 EU countries ,your passport is only used for identity purposes only.
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Breaking news - The Telegraph this morning:
Hundreds of thousands of British expats are set to be granted the right to carry on living on the Continent after Brexit after the majority of European Union countries signalled they were ready to do a “reciprocal rights” deal with the UK.
Senior Government figures have told business leaders that only “a few” of the 27 EU member states are left to agree the outline of a reciprocal rights agreement for Britons in the EU, and EU nationals living in this country for when Britain leaves the EU.
The Government said no deals had yet been struck, but the closeness of an informal understanding is leading to speculation that any deal will be announced at a key EU summit in Brussels next month.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/22/british-expats-set-granted-right-carry-living-eu-theresa-mays/
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 23/11/2016.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Mickeyfinn
Re breaking news: This is exactly what Theresa May implied when she spoke in Parliament as previously pointed out on this thread quite some time ago. when she inferred she would not be following any unilateral arrangement to protect EU citizens in the UK unless it was a reciprocal agreement that protected the rights of UK citizens living abroad.
Great common sense and mutually beneficial.... :)
As for your previous observations Mickeyfinn, some British companies that voluntarily shifted to a higher living wage found that staff absenteeism and turnover rates reduced, and productivity improved. It is hard to disentangle cause and effect here; are better-paid staff better motivated or are employers forced to become more efficient to absorb the cost of higher wages?
This issue is also very topical because of the apparent slowness of productivity growth, despite the excitement over new technology. One explanation could be the sluggishness of wage growth; labour is so cheap that employers have less incentive to replace it with capital. I.e. not reinvesting.
As for your other observation re resentment due to "taking nationals jobs". There are many who have highlighted far wider implications that have led to concerns as previously discussed many times on this thread. If you wanted I could quote a typical example but this has already been debated ad infinitum....
This message was last edited by ads on 23/11/2016.
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