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For the UK the commons is the executive body and it is elected.
the commons are not really the executive body that is the role of the cabinet, who are not really elected other than as MP's the party leader selects them as his/her team. UK govt advisors are also NOT elected. UK H of L's are not elected
For the EU the commission is the executive body and it is unelected.
The executve body is elected / nominated by the heads of states as per the democratically agreed process by the members of the EU Then they are voted in by MEP's - so thay have to be elected democratically simple really
UK cabinet ministers, UK govt advisors and in some cases members of the H of L's are not elected by anyone
You may not like the system or form of democracy used in the EU or the UK but the EU process for appointing commisoners is far more democratic than the appointment of the UK cabinet, UK gvt advisorsand the H of L's
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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The Government was facing a defeat in the Commons on a Labour motion calling on the Prime Minister to “commit to publishing” her plan before the process of leaving the European Union begins.
Ministers have now accepted the motion, while amending it to challenge Labour to get behind its timetable for invoking Article 50.
Theresa May has pledged to initiate the two-year Brexit negotiation timeframe by the end of March next year – but, subject to the ruling of the Supreme Court, she may need MPs’ approval to do so.
A non-binding amendment to the Labour motion has now been tabled in the Prime Minister’s name which would tie MPs to her plan.
The original motion, which will be debated this afternoon, said it was “Parliament’s responsibility to properly scrutinise the Government while respecting the decision of the British people to leave the European Union”.
While accepting there should be “no disclosure of material that could be reasonably judged to damage the UK” in the Brexit negotiations, the motion “called on the Prime Minister to commit to publishing the Government’s plan for leaving the EU before Article 50 is invoked”.
The Government’s amendment accepted Labour’s wording, but turned the pressure onto Labour MPs by adding that the House “further calls on the Government to invoke Article 50 by 31 March 2017”.
Ministers have previously refused to give details on the UK’s priorities for the negotiations, arguing that to do so would give the upper hand to their EU counterparts.
The Conservative leadership looked set to be outvoted after Tory former minister Anna Soubry said she would support Labour’s motion and predicted “at least” 40 of her colleagues would do likewise.
This message was last edited by ads on 07/12/2016.
This message was last edited by ads on 07/12/2016.
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One of the country's most influential historians yesterday admitted he had been wrong to endorse the Remain campaign – and should have backed Brexit.
Before the referendum, Professor Niall Ferguson had been one of the most vociferous supporters of Britain staying in the European Union.
He had warned that leaving the EU would be 'the ultimate divorce', dubbing its supporters 'happy morons' and 'Anglo-loonies' who ignored the serious damage that would be done to the economy.
But yesterday, in an astonishing reversal, he said he had been wrong and admitted he – and the rest of the elite – had failed to listen to voters concerned about immigration. Brexit, he said, was the 'revolt' of provincial England.
The 52-year-old, who is a professor at Harvard in the US, also issued a scathing critique of the EU, which he said 'deserved Brexit' after failing on 'monetary union, foreign policy, migration policy, radical Islam policy'.
Speaking at the Milken Institute conference on the future of Europe in London, he said: 'I'm going to do something very unusual on these occasions, I'm going to admit that I was wrong.
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It is only on forums like EOS .that involves the expats that seem tobe showing any concern about the Brexit ,l have a holiday home in Spain that I go to every 6 weeks throughout the year and spend 1 week so I do not share the same selfish concern's as the expats that have given up on the UK by emigrating to Spain ,prior to the Brexit many of the supporters of staying IN the EU did not have a good word to say about their home land ,So why are they so concerned now that we are leaving the EU .because I can assure you especially where I come from you do not hear the word Brexit and I can only put that down to the fact ,that the Majority that voted OUT or IN are getting on with their lives in the UK ,maybe its time for the Remoners to do this and let the elected power's that be get on with it ,have a good day and if you are lucky and don't have to many to worries you will wake up and have a good day tomorrow as well ,thank god we live in a Democracy.but unfortunately we will always have the citizen Smith to put up with something you would not have in a Dictatorship.
This message was last edited by windtalker on 07/12/2016.
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Professor Niall Ferguson has a long history of controversial views of history. Read his Wiki page. Note he was a Thatcherite, a friend of Michael Gove and a severe critic of the EU long before the referendum.
Take what you may from his volte face but no one should be surprised. The cynic in me thinks he has books to sell.
Windtalker
Brexit is the single most important political and economic subject of our time. I matters not where you happen to live. I do not understand your point I'm afraid. Just let the politicos sort it and all will be well, I don’t think so. The people must hold the feet of their representatives in parliament to the fire to obtain the best deal possible. May’s ‘best deal possible’ is not the same thing for other people.
PS: Expat forums in France are awash with Brexit threads. The one I'm a member of has 103 separate topics on Brexit and 4,997 replies.
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 07/12/2016.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Mickyfinn .We have a elected political establishment hear in The UK that where voted in by a Democracy to sort out problems that come up ,like the EU Brexit referendum so citizen Smith's can moan all they whant Democracy has spoken live with it get on with you're life.The only problem I have with the Democratic proses is that the 20 or so Conservative politicians that took up their seat done so under false pretence ,as they new the only way the Conservative party won last election was the Mandate that clearly stated that they would give us the British citizens a vote on whether to stay in the EU or leave the EU we voted to leave that's it simple so for god sake let them get on with it.
This message was last edited by windtalker on 07/12/2016.
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Professor Niall Ferguson has a long history of controversial views of history. Read his Wiki page. Note he was a Thatcherite, a friend of Michael Gove and a *****severe critic of the EU long before the referendum.*****
Take what you may from his volte face but no one should be surprised. The cynic in me thinks he has books to sell.
Windtalker
Brexit is the single most important political and economic subject of our time. I matters not where you happen to live. I do not understand your point I'm afraid. Just let the politicos sort it and all will be well, I don’t think so. The people must hold the feet of their representatives in parliament to the fire to obtain the best deal possible. May’s ‘best deal possible’ is not the same thing for other people.
PS: Expat forums in France are awash with Brexit threads. The one I'm a member of has 103 separate topics on Brexit and 4,997 replies.
Well Micky the section I starred he did admit to anyway.
And I would like to say a big thank you for your post, I had a £20.00 bet with a friend that sooner rather then later one of the remainers on here would trash his words, you took a little over two hours, I won the bet.....Thank you.
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Baz.
Happy to oblige, shall I sent you my bank details for half the spoils?
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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I think most people have accepted the vote to leave the EU, but the issues remains as to what exactly are the terms of the UK’s departure from the EU.
As it currently stands it simply cannot be left in the hands of 20 or so MP’s. As no matter what solution / plan or agreement they come up with it will not meet the demands or the expectations of 100% of the exit voters
A full and open debate in Parliament is required with a full disclosure to the UK public and stop worrying about secrecy (or showing our hand to the EU) in the negotiation with the EU or the EU finding out what the UK’s wants are – this is not a childish game of whodunit and it should not be guesswork by either side, who clearly want a win / win mutually beneficial brexit.
Time to stop with this hard, soft, red white and blue or any other colour nonsense of Brexit options, let’s have the hard facts and the realities of the situation warts & all clearly documented and available to all.
Had this been on the polling card in June we may actually have a better idea of what Brexit will bring and we would have better chance of exiting smoothly without the objections, rumours, myths, legal challenges and horrible division across the UK
I would suggest the only solution is to table the options and plans openly with FULL transparency including the costs & the benefits, the pros & cons of an exit, clearly state the non-negotiable issues from both the UK & the EU then let the public vote again?
Only then when the public truly vote for what the UK wants can a negotiating team be put together and start the process of leaving the EU
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Baz.
Happy to oblige, shall I sent you my bank details for half the spoils?
No chance, life wouldn't be worth living if it got around that I was fraternising with a remainer.
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As a Brexiteer l am in favor of MPs voting on the deal we get from the EU, or what deal we want to give them as long is follows the Democratic process with a show of hands on the day and the Majority wins ,otherwise if you have a voting system like they have in the EU where all 28 members state's have to agree 100% it could take 20 years to sort out the Brexit ,what a joke the EU has turned into .
This message was last edited by windtalker on 07/12/2016.
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Qualified Majority Voting (QMV)
The 'standard' voting method in the Council
Qualified majority is the most widely used voting method in the Council.
It's used when the Council takes decisions during the ordinary legislative procedure, also known as co-decision. About 80% of all EU legislation is adopted with this procedure.
Under this procedure, when the Council votes on a proposal by the Commission or the High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, a qualified majority is reached if two conditions are met:
- 55% of member states vote in favour - in practice this means 16 out of 28 member states.
- 65% of the total EU population is represented
Certain subjects, such as finance, defence, cooperation among poliice forces and membership, will still need unanimous voting decisions.
Along with EU citizens making up 90% of all immigrants into UK, it's a wonder they allow some people to vote.
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Boboal the last time the EU voted on a , import/export deal that involved Canada it took the 28 members of the EU ,14 years to come to a agreement ,the Canadian, s where ready to walk away as they found the EU impossible to work with ,and to this day, I think the EU only struck a last minute deal because of the Brexit.
This message was last edited by windtalker on 07/12/2016.
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Great idea Tadd, we set out all our hopes and plans to leave the UK to suit as many in the UK as possible, for ALL to consider.
We go to the EU after we have laid out all our needs and wished and the EU of course provides us with exact
ly everything we have asked for.
What on earth is in it for the EU to allow us anything IF they know that there could be opposition to being told, we are out on our own?
They would be laughing all over their faces.
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Hugh_man
So what is the option?
We will be putting our exit plans for exit from the eu at some point so why not with the full backing of a democratic vote and support of the uk instead of some plan put together by a small number of MP's in secret
Why not get full clarity of what the eu will or won't accept
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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I should think a large number are Scots Nats Ads, plus our new Richmond Lib Dem.
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Tadd, why on earth would the EU negotiators offer us anything IF they are fully aware of our needs, they know full well the government would have problems with opposition MPs IF we have to be caste out without a helping hand.
Of course, many of us understand that that result would not necessarily be a disaster as there will be many countries wanting to deal with us both in Europe and beyond.
It is a fallacy to think that EU countries businesses will not do business in the UK BECSUSE a small number of politicians say so. It will only add to the current internal Ezu problems.
Let the negotiators do their job, obtain the best possible trading relationship possible for us and get on with our lives knowing we are able to make our own decisions but still staying friends and cooperating with Europe.
How on earth do you expect parliament to agree on every conceivable demand when we know the EU will offer very little.
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Ken Clarke represents Rushcliffe in Nottinghamshire. They voted to remain so I suppose you could say he is following the wishes of his constituents. I should imagine most of the SNP would as well as their constituents voted to remain.
Of course, the huge majority for the government won't stop certain sections of the press embarking on a witch hunt and using inflammatory phrases like "failing to respect the decision of the British people".
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Hugh_man
I am not suggesting the uk should ask the eu for anything we are leaving but the uk have many things to negotiate from debt to the eu to freedom of movement
What exit deal do the uk want and what will the eu never accept
It us the uk that are leaving not the eu inviting the uk in or begging the uk to stay
What have the uk really got to negotiate with?
What have the uk got to hide?
Some might even ask what have the uk got to lose
Others may ask what have the uk really got to offer
If the uk position is not to accept freedom of movement and the eu are the complete opposite then let's just accept it as non negotiable and move on end of freedom of movement and all other topics that are linked to that
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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