BREXIT

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05 Apr 2016 12:57 PM by Hephaestus Star rating in The Peak District Na.... 1230 posts Send private message

Moody's predicts a 'small' UK economic hit from EU exit, but then again, what do they know that the scaremongers don't? The UK news today is almost 100% Tata Steel with no mention of Brexit to my best knowledge, only UK nationals with EU residency interests appear to be making anything of this. We haven't had any flyers through the letter box or knocks on the door relative to the forthcoming referendum, if it wasn't for this forum I could be forgiven for forgetting that there will be a vote on the 23rd June.

I'm sticking to my belief that this will be a very close run thing, however the smaller the turn out the stronger the possible victory for Brexit, and this really has all the makings of a small turn out.



_______________________

I'm Spartacus, well why not?




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05 Apr 2016 12:58 PM by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1833 posts Send private message

We live in a free market environment ads not a socialist dictatorship. Wealth creation is produced by speculation not regulation.



_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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05 Apr 2016 1:00 PM by mariedav Star rating in Ciudad Quesada. 1220 posts Send private message

@tteedd

It has been speculated that the small loss in value of the pound

Do you really think a drop of 18 cents since November 2015 to now is a small loss? Buying a house in Spain for €140,000 in November would have been around £97,000. Now it is £112,000. Might be small to you but rather large to a lot of people.





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05 Apr 2016 1:41 PM by ads Star rating. 4134 posts Send private message

Unregulated speculation that manipulates and hedges bets on the downfall of a country's economy that has the potential to induce another major recession in its wake is hardly considered wealth creation is it, except for those with malintent / hidden agendas? 

Socialist dictatorship?..... how can calling for compliance/regulation to control manipulative unethical behaviour be deemed such?





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05 Apr 2016 1:51 PM by tteedd Star rating in Hertfordshire & Punt.... 990 posts Send private message

Pound dropped in value against Euro 2007/8 by 38%

Pound rose in value against Euro 2008/15 by 33%

Pound fell against Euro by about 12% so far this year.

Last couple of days reversal does not mean anything yet.

So happens I bought a flat in Spain last year. If I was buying now I would have been unhappy if I had not brought the extra money out early but prices are still low.

What did annoy me was Valencia valuing the property at nearly twice what I paid and taxing me accordingly. But this is the sort of double dealing that the EU (driven by mainly the southern Nations) is famous for.

12% is definitely small historically (Have a look at the ERM debacle).

 


This message was last edited by tteedd on 05/04/2016.


This message was last edited by tteedd on 05/04/2016.



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05 Apr 2016 1:58 PM by tteedd Star rating in Hertfordshire & Punt.... 990 posts Send private message

this really has all the makings of a small turn out

Lets pray for cats & dogs





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05 Apr 2016 2:10 PM by tteedd Star rating in Hertfordshire & Punt.... 990 posts Send private message

It’s difficult to get across to the ‘outers’ that the current level of prosperity Britain has had since the recession would largely not exist had Britain been outside the EU.

Impossible I would hope.

Since it is not true.

 

It can be argued that our prosperity lies in the fact that we are outside the Euro.

It can be argued that it is due to low labour costs.





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05 Apr 2016 2:52 PM by ads Star rating. 4134 posts Send private message

This is an interesting website for those who like analysing statistical data (you can look at individual countries by clicking on the top)

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/indicators

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/spain/indicators

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/germany/indicators

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/euro-area/indicators

Let's see what our EOS "economists" make of this. wink

 

 


This message was last edited by ads on 05/04/2016.



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05 Apr 2016 3:51 PM by theline Star rating. 84 posts Send private message

What did annoy me was Valencia valuing the property at nearly twice what I paid and taxing me accordingly. But this is the sort of double dealing that the EU (driven by mainly the southern Nations) is famous for.

The decision to over-tax you on your property was taken by the tax office of the autonomous community of Valencia. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the EU.

If you were a bit less ignorant in such matters (which you really should be if you really are a home owner here), you'd also know that the EU has actively fought and ruled against several unfair tax practices aimed against non-Spanish EU residents (including us poor, hard done by British) by various Spanish tax agencies , which has lead to massive improvements in the way we are treated in respect of inheritance taxes on Spanish property.





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05 Apr 2016 4:00 PM by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1833 posts Send private message

It can be argued that it is due to low labour costs.

Yes such a EU migrants being allowed free movement to the UK and who will work harder for a minimum wage than the British.



_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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05 Apr 2016 4:53 PM by tteedd Star rating in Hertfordshire & Punt.... 990 posts Send private message

Wow. You're on our side Micky!

And as for the previous comment: You reproduce what I said then criticise me for something I have not said!!

I have been a property owner for some time in Spain and yes,rather belatedly there have been a couple of tax and property rulings against Spain. But the fact is that, under EU membership rules, Spain is supposed to treat EU citizens the same as Spanish citizens. There are a myriad of ways in which it does not. But perhaps that is why economic migrants want to come to the UK. We obey the rules.

btw I would never call anyone ignorant. I leave others to judge on the evidence.





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05 Apr 2016 5:15 PM by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1833 posts Send private message

If you accept labour is a market then leaving the EU will choke off such resources. Free movement and right of residence is only a possibility with EU membership. Its not the only market at risk. Unless the UK joins EFTA after Brexit, tariffs on UK goods are inevitable and legal restrictions on movement in Europe a given.

EFTA is a second class place. All the regulation without influence. What's the point?



_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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05 Apr 2016 5:23 PM by theline Star rating. 84 posts Send private message

I'll admit that often the EU rulings and their enforcement (as with most legal processes, including those in the UK) are slower than perhaps they should be.

But, surely its better to have some kind of entity, offering some protection on our financial interests in Spain, than to have no protection at all? (which is exactly the situation we'll find outselves in if we leave the EU).

 





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05 Apr 2016 5:59 PM by ads Star rating. 4134 posts Send private message

http://eeas.europa.eu/eea/

EU Relations with European Economic Area (EEA)

The Agreement creating the European Economic Area(EEA) entered into force on 1 January 1994. It allows the EEA EFTA States (Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein) to participate in the Internal Market on the basis of their application of Internal Market relevant acquis. All new relevant Community legislation is dynamically incorporated into the Agreement and thus applies throughout the EEA, ensuring the homogeneity of the internal market.

The EEA Agreement is concerned principally with the four fundamental pillars of the Internal Market, “the four freedoms", i.e. freedom of movement of goods, persons, services and capital. But also “flanking policies” such as social policy, consumer protection, and environment policy may be covered. The EEA Agreement does not cover agriculture and fisheries.

The EEA Agreement allows for EEA EFTA participation in Internal Market relevant Community programmes and agencies, albeit with no right to vote. The EEA-EFTA states also make financial contributions towards the reduction of economic and social disparities in the EEA.     

The Agreement covers most of the substance of the EU's relations with the EEA EFTA States. The updating of the Agreement through the incorporation of new relevant Community legislation generally runs smoothly and thousands of legal acts have been extended to the EEA to date.

__________________________________________________________________________________________

http://www.efta.int/sites/default/files/images/publications/efta-at-a-glance-may-2015.pdf

What is EFTA?
The European Free Trade Association (EFTA) is an intergovernmental organisation set up for the promotion of
free trade and economic integration to the benefit of its four Member States: Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and
Switzerland. The Association has responsibility for the management of:
The EFTA Convention;
The Agreement on the European Economic Area (the EEA Agreement); and
EFTA’s worldwide network of free trade agreements (FTAs).
The EFTA Convention
The EFTA Convention regulates the free trade relations between the four EFTA Member States and provides the
legal framework for EFTA as an organisation. It covers trade in goods and services and includes areas such as
investment and the free movement of persons.
The EEA Agreement
The EEA Agreement brings together the Member States of the European Union (EU) and three of the EFTA States
– Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway – in a single market, also referred to as the ”Internal Market”. The Agreement
provides for the inclusion of EU legislation on the free movement of goods, services, capital and persons in the
legal systems of the three EEA EFTA States and establishes common rules on competition and state aid. It further
covers cooperation in key areas such as research and development, environment, education and social policy.
Switzerland is not a member of the EEA but has a series of bilateral agreements with the EU.
EFTA’s Free Trade Network
Cross-border trade and investment are central to the economic growth and dynamism of the EFTA countries,
which are highly integrated in the global economy and are leading international investors. Together they
ranked twelfth in world merchandise trade and seventh in world commercial services trade in 2013. The EFTA
States have developed one of the largest networks of FTAs, which today spans over 60 countries and territories,
including the EU. Combining the contractual frameworks with the EU and the FTAs with non-EU countries, some
80% of EFTA’s total merchandise trade is conducted under preferential arrangements.

This message was last edited by ads on 05/04/2016.



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05 Apr 2016 7:04 PM by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1833 posts Send private message

Thanks for the info ads.

My questions are what would be the UK financial contribution to join EEA in the event of a Brexit vote?. 

What is the advantage of memebership over its current status?

What is the purpose of joining a second class club? Considering the UK has currently all the advantages of full membership of the EU.which gives the country influence for change.



_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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05 Apr 2016 9:22 PM by perrypower1 Star rating in Derbyshire/Fuerteven.... 647 posts Send private message

perrypower1´s avatar

Brexit would leave UK farmers up to €34,000 worse off, study finds





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05 Apr 2016 9:26 PM by perrypower1 Star rating in Derbyshire/Fuerteven.... 647 posts Send private message

perrypower1´s avatar

Stephen Hawking has branded Brexit a "disaster for UK science."

2,000 researchers/scientists polled a whopping 74.8% agreed that the UK should remain in the EU.





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05 Apr 2016 9:31 PM by perrypower1 Star rating in Derbyshire/Fuerteven.... 647 posts Send private message

perrypower1´s avatar

A majority of 18-34 year olds would support EU membership in June.  Those aged between 18 and 34— staying within the EU, at 53%, compared with just 29% opting to leave the EU.





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05 Apr 2016 11:09 PM by MikeandHelen Star rating. 193 posts Send private message

 

mariedav.

The EU accounts have never been independantly audited.

The report into corruption was produced by the European Commission, look up  who they are.

"We are the Directorate-General of the European Commission in charge of the policy area known as "Migration and Home Affairs". We manage policies that aim at ensuring that all activities necessary and beneficial to the economic, cultural and social growth of the EU may develop in a stable, lawful and secure environment. More specifically, we work to build an open and safer Europe."

It is they that have produced the report on corrution in the UK.

By co-incidence their report was published at the same time as a global corruption conference at Chatham House, which I attended.

It is simply wrong to compare corruption in the UK - do you have any examples of local mayors and other politicians who are in jail for corruption? with the level of corruption in Spain which has been widely publicised.  

Whilst you may wish to describe me as a 'shouty outy' i would describe you as an 'Ignorant Inner' totally out of touch with the real problems in the UK.

Let's discuss other things like:

Your pension. The decision to pay this to residents in other countries is that of the UK government and has nothing to do with EU membership.

Healthcare for people living abroad. Will the Spanish healthcare authorities stop billing the UK NHS for your care and would a UK government stop paying for care in european countries? The EHIC card is not used in the UK as Doctors refuse to co-operate with checking entitlement to UK Healthcare but the NHS in trying to catch out expats living abroad.

The exchange rate: This will fluctuate as it has done since the recession. But the EURO is still in crisis and the ECB is printing money to save the euro, sorry Quantative Easing, and this weakens the currency. This is something that you can speculate on but at least the Pound does make adjustments, someting that Eurozone coutries cannot do.





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06 Apr 2016 12:01 AM by theline Star rating. 84 posts Send private message

The fact that so many Spanish politicians are in jail is actually a credit to Spain, in the sense that they are actually punishing the corrupt. Also, if you look at how much the tax agencies here are crawling all over pretty much anyone they can find who have avoided paying taxes (including famous footballers, and even the royal family).

What tends to happen in the UK is much more subtle. Funds are filtered away into "legitimate businesses" (usually owned by politicians and their acquaintances). Crucial state services are privatized and sold off (to the same people). And for the more adventurous/greedy (and its beginning to appear that our own Prime Minister's family may fall into this category), funds are moved into shell companies in various tax havens across the world (of which a significant number are British dependencies).

When you take away all the fluff, there are two main differences between the UK and Spain in this respect. Firstly, for the most part in the UK it is "legal" (if you have political/legal leverage to pull the sufficient strings that is) to obtain and keep this "immorally" obtained money, whereas in Spain (at least nowadays) it certainly is not. Secondly, Britain has much more wealth to plunder than Spain ever did, so the effects aren't felt quite as strongly (at least not yet).





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