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It's in the nature of all states be they EU or otherwise to seek economic and political advantage over others. We don't unfortunately inhabit a perfect world. What the EU does is try and temper that competitive instinct inside a union of nations with shared interests, solidarity and cooperation.
If Britain leaves that union then the assets of the country are fair game to exploit and cooperation will be limited. The British must expect that as one more negative consequence of Brexit.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Jarvi said
Try looking back through all your posts, almost all negative about Brexit, and as "for doing a silly thing on the back of lies, rumours , scaremongering, misinformation etc" wasn't project fear part of all that? it is obvious to everyone that loads of remainers cannot and will accept the democratic decision of the people.
Yes all negative about Brexit because I think it is a silly mis-inormed decision and a negative way forward for the UK
The UK is not that great, not that important to the EU or the world, and have nothing specia or uniqul to offer - but I have to accept the vote.
I would still like to see from the Brexit camp exactly what will happen post brexit
They still have no idea (FACT) and how voters took a decision based on no IDEAS, no plans etc. (other than rumours, scaremongering and misinformation - lies) is beyond me. It only showed me one thing - but let's not go there again
Let's see wha the supreem court say and if parlaiment have a say in debating and voting on teh plnas (when tehgovt get one) - mayeb we might get another vote
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Tadd said
Yes all negative about Brexit because I think it is a silly mis-inormed decision and a negative way forward for the UK The UK is not that great, not that important to the EU or the world, and have nothing specia or uniqul to offer - but I have to accept the vote.I would still like to see from the Brexit camp exactly what will happen post brexitThey still have no idea (FACT) and how voters took a decision based on no IDEAS, no plans etc. (other than rumours, scaremongering and misinformation - lies) is beyond me. It only showed me one thing - but let's not go there againLet's see wha the supreem court say and if parlaiment have a say in debating and voting on teh plnas (when tehgovt get one) - mayeb we might get another vote
Jarvi said
Of course you are right because you are an intellegent remainer and all the leave camp are un-educated and didn't know what we were voting for? (We voted to leave a corrupt un-democratic sytem which doesn't give a toss about anyone) Yes lets see what the Supreme court says? We already know what they will say, there will be no surprises since the majority of them are pro-EU. Also your comments are - "but I have to accept the vote" - then you say "mayeb we might get another vote", clearly no acceptance there then?
See todays papers below to see whats going to happen with the great EU
"Britain’s vote to leave the European Union has started the bloc’s “disintegration”, Italy’s minister for European affairs has said.
Sandro Gozi, an ally of outgoing Italian prime minister Matteo Renzi, said his country was facing a “period of uncertainty” following the vote this weekend to reject a planned constitutional reform.
The centre-left Democratic Party minister argued that the referendum defeat represented a missed opportunity to reform European institutions and save the EU from falling apart.
“I think that the beginning of European disintegration has started with Brexit,” Mr Gozi told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme."
The sooner the better I say.
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Jarvi
all the leave camp are un-educated and didn't know what we were voting for?
Not all but a lot and they still have no IDEA what they voted for and many are now asking questions
(We voted to leave a corrupt un-democratic sytem which doesn't give a toss about anyone)
Undemocratic ????????
the MEP's are elected by the citizens of the EU
The 28 EU commissioners are recommended / proposed by the heads of the 28 member states govt and ratified / approved by the elected MEP's in a vote
All issues, directives are voted on by member states (the only possible undemocratic bit is the veto some member states have like the UK have - but even these need some allies)
Corrupt EU maybe, but no more or no less than UK govts / politicians or any another govts / polciticans across the world
How many politicians in the UK or across the world actually care about anyone but themselves - not a lot but go ahead jsut balem teh EU for everything that is wrong in the world
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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A question....
If Italy's banks are in the red with all the associated knock-on risks to the eurozone, why have the EU up to this point not taken steps under their stability mechanisms to ensure that these Banks take action to address their bad loans etc before now? What is the point of stability mechanisms if they are not adhered to? Is there any likelihood that Italy will have to seek out loans from the IMF and Italian citizens in that process will be subjected to similar austerity measures as Greece?
Is this what citizens aspire to from the EU i.e. that they are content to remain at risk from negligence to adhere to stability mechanisms in place to protect from the outset? That they are content with a system that demonstrates little flexibility to respond to changing or unintended consequences that have lead to major citizen concern that were born from EU policy such as uncontrolled freedom of movement, etc.
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Italy is a sovereign state and as such would resent any EU interference its own affairs. If it requires help it will ask for it. Would the Federal Reserve step in to bail out any US state in trouble without being invited. You seem to have an odd view of what the EU actually is if I may say so.
Italy has a long history of political crisis this one is no different. I have lived in Italy and the national government has little influence on Italians way of life. They will simply shrug and get on with their lives. The Italians are basically ungovernable. It’s total nonsense and wishful thinking for Brexiteers to suggest the NO result will threaten the stability of the EU. It was actually a personal vote against Renzi, the Italian people wanted rid of him.
Jeroen Dijsselbloem, president of the Eurogroup, today said he was confident Rome had “strong institutions” that could deal with the financial fallout from the referendum vote, and expressed confidence Italy’s struggling banks would weather the storm.
“If this is the market reaction, it doesn’t seem to require any emergency steps,” Mr Dijsselbloem said in response to a question about whether the European Central Bank should intervene ahead of a eurogroup meeting in Brussels.
“The process of dealing with some of the banks that have problems need to continue and will continue,” he added. “[Italy] is a strong economy, is one of the largest economies in the eurozone, it’s a country with strong institutions.”
Quote FT 5th December.
Banca Monte dei Paschi di Siena the main bank in trouble with bad loans has just raised €1 billion from its shareholders. Quite a vote of confidence I would say.
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 05/12/2016.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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'How Brexiteers believe they can simply walk away from the second largest economy on the planet and it's previleged single market access and on its doorstep I cannot imagine.'
We always knew you had a lack of imagination. But you are in luck you do not need the imagination you feel the lack of.
We do not need the single market with all it's restrictions, all we need is trading on equal terms. If you chose to call that walking away from the single market then that is up to you, it's just rhetoric.. We do not need to be in the 'single market' to trade with the EU.
We do not wish to stop trading with Europe. What we want is release from the corrupt beaurocratic political machine, freedom, democracy, control of our borders and legal system. We wish to return to being a self governing independent nation.
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'lies, rumours , scaremongering, misinformation etc'
Luckily they did not manage to overturn the vote.
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Undemocratic ????????
Yes, the EU is very Undemocratic.
MEP's are elected. We could go into the system, but we have no need as they have no power.
The Commission has the power. It is an unelected body of mainly failed national politicians and beaurocrats.
If you want an accurate comparison imagine the house of Lords being the executive and the commons not even having the ammending powers that the current Lords has.
Just don't get us started on corruption. MP's expenses are insignificant compared with what goes on in the EU.
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Lots of interesting points put forward by the Government in the Supreme Court case.
EU referendum: Was it just advisory or was it binding?
For the government, James Eadie now moves on to the crucial question of whether the EU referendum was binding, or advisory only. He is asked by one of the justices about a briefing paper produced by the House of Commons library which suggested that the referendum was merely advisory.
Mr Eadie notes that the House of Commons was concerned about the document being raised in court but that it had been referred to during the High Court hearing and therefore "that horse may have bolted".
He says the phrase advisory could be regarded as "neutral" depending on how it was interpreted, but refers to a statement made by then foreign secretary Philip Hammond during the referendum bill's passage that the vote would be "decisive".
i find this to be a very interesting point. The arguments in the High Court and the press at the time of the vote made it clear that it was advisory and that the Government and the Executive staunchly backed remain. We have not had a change of Government we have had a change of Executive.
It has been put forward today that if the Executive ignored the majority vote then the Courts could intercede by forcing Parliamentary debate. The flip side must also be true. Or not? I am not sure.
If the vote had been to Remain then the Government or the Executive would presumably have done nothing. But not actually. There would have had to be a Parliamentary Debate and vote on the changes to EU law that were offered if the UK remained so that they could become law. If the vote had been to leave (which it was) and the Executive refused to accept it the Court could intercede and require Paliamentary debate and vote. How is it possible that a vote which was contrary to the Government's and the Executive's publically stated position not require Paliament's scrutiny. If it is because of a change of the Executive then the Court must be able to intercede and force debate. What have I missed?
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Let's say the Lib Dems get their way and overturned the Brexit referendum ,presumably they will need a mandate to do this, one of the biggest problems is uncontrollable migration from the EU so this will have to be in their mandate how are they going to stop it if the EU won't let them .
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teedd -all we need is trading on equal terms.
I'll forgive your personal attack on my imagination. Quite unnecessary.
You assume the EU will fawn all over Mrs May and hand the UK a free trade agreement without signing up to the four freedoms. Dream on It's not going to happen and why prey should it? Britain wants to be rid of it. Britain voted to leave, not negotate sweet heart deals to keep trade advantages.
I have news for you, Britain is in trouble. The government knows it,the markets know it the EU knows it and soon everyone will have the dawn break over a Britain alone in the world. The British were led up the garden path in the referendum and the people responsible for it will have to pay a political price.
Freedom is what you want for your country and that's what your going to get and little else. Enjoy
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 05/12/2016.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Micky
You brought your imagination into the discussion.
But in any case I appologise - your last post shows a vivid imagination.
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EU referendum:
Was a democratic test of the will of the people.
It was authorised by a six to one vote in parliament.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 05/12/2016.
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But was it advisory or binding and if it required an act of Parliament to ask the question how can it not require an act of Patliament to implement the will of the people.
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Hello when is someone answer my question.
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Tteedd
The 28 commissioners are nominated by each member state THEN the MEP's vote
A lot more democratic than the H if L's
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Hello when is someone going to answer my post.
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A lot more democratic than the H if L's
Would not be difficult you would have thought, but unfortunately not.
The members of the commision are selected just as the members of the house of lords are. There is no democratic accountablilty. Further each country gets one commissioner so if you beleive they are representatives then the commissioner for Luxemburg represents 1M and the commissioner for the UK 66M. But in reality they and the whole beaurocracy represent nobody but the EU. Commissioners representing less than 8% of the EU population can form a majority.
The parliament has no teeth whatsoever, it is just a talking shop. A veneer to give a semblance of democracy. Now, had the EEC/EU moved any distance towards democratising their institutions over the past 40 years and had a plan for further reform in the future then, the vote on June the 23 might have given a different result. Certainly an EU parliament that had any power might have been responsive to the will of the people and prevented some of the problems that the EU now faces.
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