Thanks Mickeyfinn.
I was asking for thoughts on reform of the EU for those remaining states post Brexit but I understand your EU aspirations from the outset and your observations re the EU not being"perfect and flawless". I don't think anyone expects that to be honest. But that is quite different to being intransigent to reform, being blind to uncomfortable realities, to adequately forward plan.
Taking your point about Greece and the Banks and the impact from the recession, here's another perspective.
You are right of course the Banks had a major impact on the global economy re the recession, with their hidden complex products that were further manipulated by those who "bet" on the system to fail etc ( and still not one has been made truly accountable). Highly complex but built upon greed and lack of effective regulatory structures.
But where we disagree, ( born out by facts ) the situation for Greece became further exacerbated following recession, when they were incentivised to join the European Union, which correctly but ironically had checks and balances in place to rightly retain the stability of the EU.
But, these stability mechanisms, in particular accession criteria, was in effect ignored by the EU who turned a blind eye to the true financial realities with regard to Greece where financial malpractices "fiddled the figures" to gain accession ( a repeat of malpractice which had also occurred in the case of Italy, but Greece was far worse).
But worse still was to come by yet further financial manipulation which led to Greece's downfall. The terms agreed with the IMF etc in effect placed Greece into a straight jacket, rightly many may say, to correct their imbalances re unrealistic spending and social structure. But where this went terribly wrong was in the equally unrealistic financial terms agreed by the " lenders" and speed at which they expected the Greek economy to reform and recover.
In effect and unforgiveably IMHO, this straight jacket and, I have to repeat SPEED at which this was done, was completely mismanaged by the financiers and bureaucrats alike, with yet a repeat of turning blind eyes to the crippling effects upon a nation of people, and placed them so inextricably dependent on their "lenders" as to lose any control of their fate in that unrealistic and mismanaged process.
What was intended as a exercise to control unrealistic spending patterns and unrealistic social patterns and bring them into line ( early retirement, lack of financial management etc) turned out to be far worse, and in that far too hasty a timetable with ridiculously unrealistic financial terms placed upon them, which inhibited any possibility of growth, left citizens having to beg on the streets, with little hope for their futures. Without any possibility to grow themselves out of the mire. And all at the hands of financiers and intransigent bureaucrats who refused to accept any responsibility for their failings.
An ideological experiment gone wrong but at the total expense of a generation ( or maybe two generations) of citizens who deserved far better from those controlling their fate.
Speed and intransigence being the operative words here.
So moving on to Brexit. The EU, IMHO, once again through their ideological aspirations allowed a similar pattern of events to occur ( albeit on a completely different scale), in so much as their mismanagement of unemployment across member states and speed of accession by Eastern European states, where they appeared content to far too SPEEDILY allow economic migrants to move across member states without any forethought or flexibility to forward plan and rationally comprehend the impact on those recipient member states. To give them opportunity to adequately prepare. Or without any realistic plan to incentivise growth in those member states stripped of their labour. ( Recognise a pattern of events occurring here?)
The difference of course in this instance as opposed to Greece, was the scale and it could be argued better ability to "cope". But sadly in this process this has only reaffirmed the concerns and doubts in citizen's minds as to the failings and intransigence of the EU bureaucrats, who seemed again content to turn a blind eye to uncomfortable realities that were worryingly starting to impact upon the cohesive nature of British citizens, leading some to wrongly conclude and generalise that the British who voted to leave were in effect becoming anti - immigrant.
In reality in the main they were just the opposite.... screaming out to regain control, to stop the downward spiral, to demand better management, to listen to their cries for greater flexibility and forward planning both by their own Govt but also the EU bureaucrats.
Stability mechanisms were also ignored by Germany conversely allowing them to grow beyond what was originally considered " balanced", but that is another debate entirely.
IMHO your observation Mickeyfinn re member states rivalry, has in effect been exacerbated by EU policies and their bureaucratic mismanagement and lack of forward planning to effect growth, by their inability to reform and respond to genuine citizen concerns, by the failure to adhere to stability mechanisms in place to protect. And that is without examining the failures re the eurozone as highlighted in a previous article.
It's a sad but highly concerning sequence of events that we all should learn from as we move forward to find solutions where we can live and trade in relative stability and harmony across Europe.
This message was last edited by ads on 14/11/2016.
This message was last edited by ads on 14/11/2016.