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The irony is that the EU could have had their cake and eat it if only they were prepared to be less protectionist, more flexible, less ideological, to accommodate and forward plan for the varying needs of the different member states ( rather one size fits all), and be better co-ordinated and willing to swiftly respond to uncomfortable realities.
As things currently stand they are doing none of the above which is alienating not only UK citizens but also other member state's citizens.
This may be a question of context, but I find it more than a little strange to hear you position it that way. The EU is for open borders. How is that protectionist? We here in the UK have moved towards closing our borders, have we not? Which of the two appears more protectionist? You would have no doubt heard the current Brexit position alternatively called "Project Hate", which directly refers to the position of immigration and open or closed borders.
There is a quite separate discussion on trade, where there are 4 freedoms applied internally within the EU. These 4 freedoms cant possibly be considered protectionist, unless one is severely trying to distort reality to pursue an agenda.
They need to better heed the mood and evaluate the wider repercussions from failing to do so, and be far more willing to listen to citizens genuine concerns in member states, and where possible reassure ( not in rhetoric but corrective action).
IMHO the EU is far too entrenched and inflexible ..... perhaps this will act as a wake up call?
Yes. Entrenched in the 4 freedoms. Bastards.
The difference between the remain and leave camp on this thread appears to be that the leave camp want a co-operative approach that benefits all ( and does not wish harm on the EU) whereas some in the remain camp sadly appear to be wishing for more intransigence so that it WILL harm the UK or sadly wishing for this to fail.
Again, I just cant get my head around how you suggest a union pursuing the 4 freedoms, with 27 countries cooperating, can seriously be labelled as uncooperative. If you would ever remember the bad old days of trying to send goods across europe on a truck, and get stopped at every turn, with paperwork upon paperwork, delays at every border, and a simple trip which today takes a day, yet in the past used to take several days, you must have forgotten how bad things were. Looking solely at logistics, and how things have improved immensely, would be instructive.
Just as has been pointed out that leavers fail to debate a way forward ( do they? I thought that all manner of aspirations and methods to achieve this had been identified, plus the open debates in Parliament continue) whereas the remain camp fail to reflect and debate the current failings of the EU and how those failings can be realistically corrected.
Ah, yes. Because we want to have our cake and eat it too, we're "genuine." Thats really taking the mickey. I'd like to know what the failing are that the EU need to resolve for us here in the UK, that we cant resolve for ourselves currently.
Are you wanting reform and if so what reform and how can this be adequately achieved given the current system and intransigence of those "in power" who to date appear determined to scupper any treaty change?
P.s. rob_j1 ...the need for cohesion is not a tangential concern, it is a very real concern is it not?
To be honest, I dont feel the need for reform. Today, I, or any member of my family, can go and work anywhere in Europe, and we have a great economy here in the UK, with things powering along. We can also retire to anywhere in Europe, and easily move our money back and forth. We dont have interference due to government stopping us from doing what we want (open borders). I look ahead, and all I see is the opposite coming, with borders closing, and trade opportunities diminishing due to tariffs coming. We decided to close our borders and turn our backs on the wider word, in "spendid isolation"; WE took a decision, WE took an action, yet some people twist this into something the EU has done.
And all for what? Become some older folks want the little Britain of 50 years ago, dreams of an empire of ages past that will never return, bitterness over failed mining, and a general anti-establishment feeling, all whipped up into a frenzy over a misguided and racist position (hmm, Adolf Hitler tried that; where did that get us...Great aspiration there, dont you think Ads? And no, I'm not serious, for those that cant detect sarcasm, in fact I'm deathly afraid that the mistakes of the past will be repeated, as history so often does).
So finally to your point of social cohesion. Yes. I would agree with you that many studies have shown we are afraid of that which is different. It makes us uncomfortable. Yes. But what is the alternative? Again, borrowing from that figure from the past, do you want to pursue an Aryan outcome? Surely not. We've intermingled races since day one, so much so, that our DNA even to this day still retains traces of Neanderthal man, believe it or not. But some people here cant or wont look at the past, never mind what lessons can be learned from it. Far better to repeat the mistakes from the past, eh?