BREXIT

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17 Mar 2016 7:50 PM by Hephaestus Star rating in The Peak District Na.... 1230 posts Send private message

How did I distort the quote, and what 'facts' did I dispute?

Perhaps you need to taste your own medicine pp1. wink



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17 Mar 2016 7:55 PM by mariedav Star rating in Ciudad Quesada. 1220 posts Send private message

To be pedantic

There are three kind of lies. Lies, damned lies and statistics.

I wonder which one the EU costs us £55 million a day comes under?

.





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17 Mar 2016 8:23 PM by Hephaestus Star rating in The Peak District Na.... 1230 posts Send private message

Back in 1938 Orson Welles broadcast a piece of War Of The Worlds on American radio, millions of people were certain that the Martians had landed and panic broke out, I reckon that if it happened again the 'IN's' would do just the same as those panic merchants. surprise 



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17 Mar 2016 8:50 PM by mariedav Star rating in Ciudad Quesada. 1220 posts Send private message

** EDITED - Against forum rules- off thread**

 

 

 


This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 3/18/2016 12:59:00 PM.



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17 Mar 2016 9:00 PM by tteedd Star rating in Hertfordshire & Punt.... 990 posts Send private message

'I wonder which one the EU costs us £55 million a day comes under?'

Inflated - lie one

Misquoted - lie two (dam lie?)

Definitely not a statistic (except, perhaps, to prove that inners here distort things).

 





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17 Mar 2016 9:15 PM by Hephaestus Star rating in The Peak District Na.... 1230 posts Send private message

** EDITED - Against forum rules - Off thread **        

 


This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 3/18/2016 12:34:00 PM.

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17 Mar 2016 11:45 PM by mariedav Star rating in Ciudad Quesada. 1220 posts Send private message

** EDITED - off thread**

Now, back to topic if at all possible. A little less of the panicky "ins" and a bit more constructive and non-sneering comments may put us back on track.

 


This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 3/18/2016 12:33:00 PM.



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18 Mar 2016 12:30 AM by perrypower1 Star rating in Derbyshire/Fuerteven.... 647 posts Send private message

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** EDITED - off thread **

 


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18 Mar 2016 6:51 AM by BigAl2015 Star rating. 194 posts Send private message

Telegraph today:

The Bank of England has warned that a vote on the UK’s membership of the European Union poses risks to economic growth, in a move that sees the central bank become increasingly active in the political debate.

Micky, this indicates that the motion to have a referendum poses risks to economic growth, not the 'in / out' decision, that is if you belive both the Telegraph and the BOE (more of them below).

Members of the Bank’s Monetary Policy Committee - which vote on interest rates - said that concerns about a possible Brexit had weighed on the pound, and may “also delay some spending decisions and depress growth of aggregate demand in the near term”.

This is the same BOE that changes it's mind every other month as to what is going to happen to interest rates, so how can we belive that they have their finger on the pulse over something so long term, if it is a short term problem I am sure we could all ride that storm. Of all the factors that could possibly be affecting the pound at the moment it is IMPOSSIBLE to say that it would have anything to do with Brexit. These people do not have crystal balls (if any at all).

“There appears to be increased uncertainty surrounding the forthcoming referendum on UK membership of the European Union,” the MPC said in a statement published after its latest meeting, which finished on Thursday morning.

The statement above is just laughable:

There appears to be increased uncertainty - so the uncertainty has increased..HAS IT?, how is this measured?

It continued: “That uncertainty is likely to have been a significant driver of the decline in sterling”.

No wieght should be carried to a statement that contains the word 'likely'

You will notice throughout the statement above, words like: 'possible', 'uncertainty' & 'likely'...not exactly inspiring words of confidence that you should put your life on hold for.

Also, it is foolish to think for a second that the BOE and the govenment do not 'p**s in the same pot', remember that resposibility was given to the BOE to control interest rates, do you really think that this is not just a smokescreen so that politicians can say 'it wasn't me'?





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18 Mar 2016 6:52 AM by Tadd1966 Star rating in Los Montesinos. 1754 posts Send private message

** EDITED - off thread **

Apologies we are drifting but thread is getting boring

 


This message was last edited by Tadd1966 on 18/03/2016.


This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 3/18/2016 12:31:00 PM.

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18 Mar 2016 8:33 AM by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1833 posts Send private message

The role of the BOE is to give forward guidance to the financial markets. That was the purpose of the statement.

Its very easy to sneer at genuine attempts to offer advice on future trends. However in this case I think its spot on. The collapse of Sterling after a brexit vote is certain. Financial risks for the UK a given.

 

 


This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 18/03/2016.

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18 Mar 2016 8:59 AM by ads Star rating. 4134 posts Send private message

This is not just about the risks associated with sterling currency rates which fluctuate whenever uncertainty rears its head, it's also about trust in the EU's ability to reform and the European Bank to adequately respond to all manner of "uncertainties". In other words there are uncertainties to both sides of the equation.





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18 Mar 2016 9:49 AM by Hephaestus Star rating in The Peak District Na.... 1230 posts Send private message

** EDITED - off thread **

Now back to Brexit, if any of you 'IN's' haven't yet noticed, I couldn't care a monkey's which way the vote goes, I just find the posts of the 'OUT's' to be far more pragmatic than yours. I never noticed any personal changes to my life style following the UK's entry into the Common Market, other than by VAT replacing Purchase Tax I reckon that a Brexit would would be similar for the average person.


am still awaiting a reply from him


This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 3/18/2016 12:30:00 PM.

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18 Mar 2016 10:17 AM by perrypower1 Star rating in Derbyshire/Fuerteven.... 647 posts Send private message

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** EDITED - off thread **

 


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18 Mar 2016 10:43 AM by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1833 posts Send private message

Heph wrote:

 I never noticed any personal changes to my life style following the UK's entry into the Common Market, other than by VAT replacing Purchase Tax I reckon that a Brexit would would be similar for the average person.

One of the many risk with referenda is the average person votes according to how they perceive the subject directly affects them personally.

The government who support staying in the EU hopes to reach public opinion and broaden out that limited knowledge into something more enlightening. I think that is an uphill challenge largely doomed to fail. In fact so far the government campaign has been sadly lacking focus and content.

The average voter has tunnel vision. Unsurprisingly they are only concerned with their daily worries and what they see around them.

The EU question is so much more important both to the country and the individual. I thought I would annoy the ‘out’ group by listing some of the benefits of being in the EU for Britain.

Access to a $16.6 trillion a year Single Market of 500m people is a key benefit.

The EU has helped open global markets to UK firms on strong terms.

Membership has increased flows of investment into the UK.

Free movement of labour has broug­­­­ht real benefits to the UK economy

The UK’s net budgetary contribution is a small net cost relative to the benefits.

Rights of residence and employment for member citizens anywhere in EU member states.

Reciprocal healthcare rights in any member state.

Taxation agreements to avoid double taxation on individuals.

No border controls between Schengen member states.

Equal citizenship status in all member states.

In the interests of balance I also list some of the disadvantages of EU Membership to UK:

Cost. Inefficient policies. Problems of the Euro. Pressure towards austerity.  Net Migration. More bureaucracy less democracy.

Many of these disadvantages are subjective. Too many people they could be seen as advantages looked at from another view point. For example austerity (living within your means) is desirable.

On either side of the debate none of these listed options are thought by the individual as likely affecting their daily lives. However in reality they do and will impact everyone’s lives both now and in the future.



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18 Mar 2016 11:13 AM by perrypower1 Star rating in Derbyshire/Fuerteven.... 647 posts Send private message

perrypower1´s avatar

There is very interesting article about the Norwegian model.  I found it at this address:

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/best-both-worlds-norway-two-063001684.html

It seems to be written in a neutral tone laying out some real world advantages and disadvantages to EU membership and alternative arrangments.

 





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18 Mar 2016 12:00 PM by Hephaestus Star rating in The Peak District Na.... 1230 posts Send private message

** EDITED -off thread**

 


This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 3/18/2016 12:29:00 PM.

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18 Mar 2016 12:05 PM by Tadd1966 Star rating in Los Montesinos. 1754 posts Send private message

** EDITED - off thread**

 


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18 Mar 2016 3:15 PM by perrypower1 Star rating in Derbyshire/Fuerteven.... 647 posts Send private message

perrypower1´s avatar

The Norwegian Model:  They have shunned the EU but are members of the EEA.  So what do they get and what does it cost?

Norway has retained its sovereignty and has access to the EU internal market, "Norwegian industry and business would have struggled without the EEA," said Elisabeth Aspaker, Norway's EEA and EU Affairs Minister. Still, she said there is a "democratic deficit" because Oslo has no say in making laws that ultimately affect the country.

What did it cost to get into the EEA?

Norway, unlike Britain, has joined the passport-free Schengen area facilitating worker and traveller mobility.

Norway has stayed outside EU fish and agriculture policies and subsidises for its farmers.  Norway's farmers received 58 percent of their income from government subsidies in 2014, the highest of any rich nation.  Norwegian consumers help to pay for farmers' steep production costs both through taxes and by paying high prices in shops for everything from beef and lamb to potatoes and carrots.

To take part in the EU internal market Norway has enacted 5,000 laws based on EU directives.  They do not get a say on the directives.  They still have some duties to pay, including Camembert from France, Stilton from Britain and Gouda from the Netherlands. Import tariffs start at 27 crowns ($3.15) per kilo for cheese.  Norway pays a 2 percent duty to sell fresh and frozen salmon to the bloc (its biggest export), and 13 percent, on smoked and other processed salmon.  To get around the 13% duty they exported 12,000 jobs to Poland and have the smoking and processing done there.

They pay 165 euros for each Norwegian every year to be in the EEA.  Asked if Norway should pull out of the EEA, 61 percent of Norwegians said "No" in a poll in January, with 23 percent saying "Yes".

In the UK we pay 170 euros per person every year (net of rebate and EU payments to the UK) to be in the EU, we do not pay any duty.

 





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18 Mar 2016 5:00 PM by tteedd Star rating in Hertfordshire & Punt.... 990 posts Send private message

'In the interests of balance I also list some of the disadvantages'

You need not bother with disadvantages, your advantages are scary enough! And those that are not are easily negociable and likely to remain in place.





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