| The Comments |
Because we have a welfare state to support our own nationals with in-work benefits originally intended to act as incentives back to work and assist with housing benefit and tax credits due to the high rental costs ( which ironically have risen as a consequence of swift increased supply outstripping demand), the way the system seems to work is we have to offer these benefits also to migrants as otherwise it would be deemed discriminatory. The Eastern Europeans who tend to be older with families (as opposed to the southern state migrants who tend to be students or younger) are also claiming child benefits from our system ( and in some cases returning monies to their member state which is worth more given the cost of living and wage differentials) which again was a state benefit system intended for nationals to assist with family costs and care...
So why should the UK have to change their supportive "caring" system that has taken years to develop just because the EU deems it to be discriminatory not to offer it to non nationals? Plus the NHS and infrastructure are all suffering as a consequence of swift large scale migration.
What should be happening is for the EU to take better account of a member states individual current systems, their country debt, unemployment levels, wage levels and cost of living ratios ( differentials), etc and factor in appropriately and accordingly. Not dictate to a caring member state that looks after its nationals to abandon such a system, all in the name of non-discrimination.
Why should member states that have relatively low unemployment levels and low debt, low cost of living, not be factored into the equation? It's crazy and what's more it's causing unnecessary resentment....
This message was last edited by ads on 23/12/2016.
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Ads, you never seem to get it, if you are in the club you have to abide by the rules whether you like it or not. Alternatively if you refuse to accept the rules you leave the club and that is exactly what is happening. Why are you telling all EOS members all this dribble that they already know and are sick of hearing.
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NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDER: A mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for admiration and a lack of empathy for others.
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Well we have one poster talking 'dribble', and another talking 'drivel', there's nothing like variety is there?
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IF YOU WISH TO QUOTE ANY OF MY POSTS PLEASE DO SO IN THEIR ENTIRETY AND NOT JUST A FEW SELECTED WORDS TOTALLY OUT OF CONTEXT.
THANK YOU.
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Boboal look up the term (Ordinary UK Resident ) and you will find that any EU citizens that migrate to the UK to stay and declare the UK as their full time place of residence no matter how old they are can claim all the benefits that a UK citizen are entitled to even EU (OAPs )from the day that they arrive this is what David Cameron wanted to change and the EU refused hence the reason the UK voted OUT so this illiterate poster can't see where you are coming from with you post.but before you get on your high horse look up ( Ordinary UK Resident.).
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When are the EU bureaucrats going to get the message that one size does not fit all and that the "club" isn't working in the interests of citizens ( not just UK citizens) with regard to impact on CITIZEN'S LIVES due to their reluctance to review uncomfortable realities, all in the name of aiming for a theoretical standardised system with no room for reform?
What's wrong with factoring in to account for differences? To design a better system with workable transient controls? Controls that more effectively balance out the differentials, a workable flexible formula that leads to less disruption, greater cohesion between it's citizens?
If it's not working you fix it, not bury heads in the sand.
The southern member states citizens have been subjected to mass unemployment, lowering living standards in that process, mass emigration as their youth have had little option but to seek employment elsewhere, their economies are constantly playing catch up, Banks now coming under increasing pressure ( the latest in Italy about to be bailed out), The latest concern being the abandonment of stability mechanisms intended to protect.
What sort of club is it that fails to recognise the impact on its members, that fails to listen to its members, that creates division and alienation against those who seek reform?
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Who cares, we are leaving
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NO SNIDE COMMENTS PLEASE. STICK TO THE THREAD SUBJECT.
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I for one care..... especially when our fellow European citizens are being equally compromised.
It beggars belief that these bureaucrats can mismanage and leave such turmoil in their wake ( just look at the Greeks) and not be made accountable for their failures and continuing intransigent approach.
P.S. if the EU bureaucrats want to use one effective "standardised procedure" lets see them making a start on creating a database that pulls together information relating to criminal records, historical info re radical behaviour, change of identities, previous denials of entry, etc with inbuilt adequate swift communication channels across member states to act as effective deterrents to those with malintent. It's not exactly rocket science in this day and age is it?
This message was last edited by ads on 23/12/2016.
This message was last edited by ads on 23/12/2016.
This message was last edited by ads on 23/12/2016.
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I for one care ,l liked the EU but just can't get my head around the stupidity that surrounds being a member of a any Union that fails to look at the concerns of it's membership,the EU have refused to revise the rules that are clearly not working and are prepared to loose one of it's largest contributors and a very powefull allies just to save face, as I have said before when the UK finally leaves the EU through no fault of it's own and stops the uncontrollable mass migration from the EU, these economic migrants will move on to the next best country in the EU to overload that countries resource's.
This message was last edited by windtalker on 23/12/2016.
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I think we all care, that's why we voted the way our conscience directed us to, whether in or out, we all want what's best for our families, our friends, our neighbours, our fellow countrymen, fellow Europeans and fellow humans.
European citizens will soon follow the lead of the Brits and demand reform and change in the EU, it's a shame, those in control cannot see their current failings.
Winston would have had a fit.
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I think I just voted for the good of my country Hugh. I'm not quite sure what Brexit means for the rest of the EU. It will certainly have German dominance, something that is not welcomed in the east (or even in Germany).
What I am a little concerned about is the picture being painted on the BBC and much of the press of the Brexit vote being all about the have nots rebelling and comparisons with Trump and the American rust belt.
They are ignoring the fact that many of the more affluent parts of the UK voted heavily to leave. My home is in a part of Hertfordshire that was for many years the most expensive area to live in the UK and where the local MP declared for 'in' and we still managed a 6% majority for 'out'.
This 'poor little things have not had it good and were only protesting' line is being pushed too far. Perhaps it sounds more plausible than the 'they are ignorant and don't understand' claptrap. It is time they realised that an informed electorate have taken a long look at the EU and do not like what they see.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 24/12/2016.
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I was talking to a neighbour who had spent his whole working life in the public sector, he was handed an early/enhanced retirement package, along with a very lucrative part time position. He's a great guy who honestly admits that he couldn't have survived in the private sector, he was and still is an obeyer of orders and suffice to say, a strong supporter of the EU. I reckon that there for ambition and a dislike of being told what to do go I. 😉
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IF YOU WISH TO QUOTE ANY OF MY POSTS PLEASE DO SO IN THEIR ENTIRETY AND NOT JUST A FEW SELECTED WORDS TOTALLY OUT OF CONTEXT.
THANK YOU.
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I personally know 2 long standing N H S nurse's that voted OUT ,they both said that they where overworked due to staff shortages and have put it down to being overwhelmed by EU nationals with the right to free NHS treatment ,one of them said she was in charge of a 20 bed ward and at any one time at least.one third of the beds are taken up by none UK nationals ,they did not say where the highest portion came from but did say the majority where over 50 years old and could speak little or no English. And came from the EUROPE.
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Sounds like the British in Spain windtalker enjoying the Spanish health service. So what? If there is more demand the UK government has a duty to expand the service to cope.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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12 Days of Brexit...Merry Christmas
(I am sure all of you can do much better than me, but keep it fun and non-personal)
Sing it to the tune of 12 Days of Christmas...
12 Billion extra debt for Christmas
11 Law Lords Laughing
10 Downing Street
9 Brexit Lessons
8 Economists for Brexit
7 iPhones cost more
6 months of no running commentary
5 Golden Promises... that have been abandoned
4 ty 8 % voted to remain
3 million eu migrants
2 buffons in government
and a Trump in the White House
Happy New Year,
Perry
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Mickyfinn the only difference between the UK nationals being treated in Spanish hospitals is that the UK tax payer's pay for the treatment, the UK NHS was put in place to offer free treatment to the UK tax paying public ,are.you saying that the NHS should expand to accommodate the whole of the EUROPE are you for real. Can you imagine the size it would have to be to accommodate the EU.what a stupid suggestion you have made I bet you voted IN amigo.
This message was last edited by windtalker on 24/12/2016.
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You missed the purpose of my point windtalker. I’ll try to explain.
UK taxpayers fund the NHS, free at point of delivery and ANYONE in need. That is UK government policy.
Spanish taxpayers fund the Spanish health service free at point of delivery and anyone in need WHO QUALIFIES. Proof of qualification being necessary.
In France and almost everywhere else it’s the same. You have to get passed the gate keepers in the system. In the UK there are no gates.
Fault lies not with the EU but with UK government present and past policies. Blame the EU if that reinforces your own view but it’s not correct. (Assuming your post about an overburdened NHS with European patients is correct and I have no knowledge of that). If you investigated your claims you would probably find most of the European patients have NI numbers and are contributing to the economy. So I say again so what?
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 24/12/2016.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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It appears the UK NHS already treats the whole of Europe free of charge and also any non EU person, no questions asked. Why, I do not know. Travel agents in Africa are advertising all inclusive health tourist trips to the UK including visas and hospital shuttle bus. So even when we eventually leave the EU nothing will have changed in this department.
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NO SNIDE COMMENTS PLEASE. STICK TO THE THREAD SUBJECT.
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I can read the headlines now, Bastard British NHS turn away injured and dying people and refuses to treat the whole of Europe for free.
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Elsie It appears the UK NHS already treats the whole of Europe free of charge
I apologise if this has already been covered but the thread is far too long for me to check
RE the so called ‘free health cover ‘ retired UK nationals, resident in Spain, receive. The DWP pays around £3,000 p.a. (maybe more now) for each of us. In my case that also applies to my dependant wife who is a Filipina. albeit she is below retirement age.
UK nations who come to Spain on holiday and need treatment should use their EHIC card and, if the system is working correctly, then Spain bills the DWP for their treatment. ( A problem occurs in Spain through as the payment goes centrally to Madrid and, unreasonably, does not end up in the Region where the treatment was provided).
I was recently in UK and needed treatment. I expected the doctor to use my EHIC card, but instead I was registered as a temporary patient. Of course upon thinking about it that was right, as of course my treatment is paid for by DWP. If I had been Spanish I understand the UK would / should have billed Spain for any treatment.
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Quite correct windtalker, the so called Liberal elite and the BBC would have a field day as they did about an experiment to show passport ID.
The facts Micky, are that the NHS has existed, fortunately a litle longer in UK than systems in Europe, which I believe, none are completely free to use. There is usually some element of private contribution.
Many non pensioner ex pats take out private health care.
The other fact is that currently only the UK has net immigration of 300,000 a year on top of the known Health tourism from Nigeria and other places.
As has been stated many times, the NHS was created to cope with UK citizens and has coped for 50 years with low levels of immigration.
Since Mr Blair opened the floodgates to the UK, possibly to gain extra votes, the NHS has been stretched beyond reason. 3 million in 20 years, nothing could grow quickly enough to cope without a massive increase in taxes, which we know is counterproductive.
No it's not all the fault of the EU but in Europe you are obliged to show your EHIC card or passport ID before receiving any subsidised treatment, most of which is then charged back to the UK.
The UK has never chosen or not been able to do this as it has put the priority of healthcare first, no ID needed to register with a GP, but you can be sure this will change after Brexit.
Happy Christmas and a Healthy New Year to All Brexiters and Remoaners.
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