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It's a sad day when political leaders fail to listen to genuine concerns of their citizens and equally sad to witness those wishing harmful negative outcomes on those with differing views. Surely as part of civilised debate and democracy it's better to focus on mutually positive outcomes that pay heed to uncomfortable realities that recognise failings and work towards solutions ( reform) that have the potential to benefit all.
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I couldn't have put it any better ads, other than to say that I have always find it to be a complete waste of time attempting to reason with a petulant child.
This message was last edited by Destry on 17/09/2016.
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None of this matters, I'll give it 5 years before the EUSSR is finished, busted. People all across Europe (like the majority of people of the UK), are starting to realise that they haven't joined a club, but a dictatorship.
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So Roly, who exactly is set to overtake the UK as the worlds 5th largest economy?
Brazil got near, mmmm something amiss there methinks.
Certainly none of the countries in the eurozone which is still the worlds second worst economy after Antartica.
Britain was doing well despite the EU after a coalition government took some of the correct steps for us to live within our means, curb unnecessary spending, encourage investment and lower taxes for small businesses.
The coalition died because the country wanted a say on Europe and voters turned their back on the Lib Dems and voted 39% Tory and 14% UKIP in 2015 which surprise surprise is a similar % to those who voted for Brexit in 2016.
UK is the only country in Europe that currently has higher new car registrations than in 2004 suggested we aren't doing bad.
Honda are increasing investment in Swindon to sell Civics to the US and non EU Countries
It has the lowest unemployment in Europe and half of the 300,000 people coming to the UK per year are coming from the EU as their home countries don't have any.
Stop branding Brexiters as racists, we are merely sensible enough to realise that NO country on earth can manage its infrastructure, it's housing, it's schools and its NHS so quickly to cope with such an influx.
Number of employed is growing but more workers would obviously impact on wages.
We still import more from EU than export so where do you guys get your views from the the worst is about to hit us.
EU is in the process of pulling itself apart but the people don't get a vote because of idiots like Junckers, who has buried his head in the sands of time.
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You are quite right Hugh_Man, the UK has been doing great...from inside the EU. There is no metric to determine how it will do from the outside.
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Good post Hugh.
There was some feverish discussion in the week after the referendum that France would overtake us. This was due to the fact that France's GDP is measured in Euros ours in GBP and they were postulating parity for the two currencies.
I see perrypower is demonstrating that the EU-philes are stuck in a groove.
A leap in the dark may get you into the light, but they prefer the dark undemocratic and corrupt dungeon.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 17/09/2016.
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Perripower1 I ask so a simple question and you come back with a answer that I would have expected from a politician.The two simple questions I asked you were ,that it is quite clearly a problem in the the UK that we need border control to curb the flow of economic migrants it to the UK (approximately 300,000 per year ) that they know of this puts a massive strain on public services like the NHS that just can't cope with the overload on a system that was put in place to only service the tax paying population of the UK only not the EU ,people like yourself that voted to stay in the EU are now realising that the OUT camp win the Democratic vote on Emigration /NHS /Housing/Benefit system. please answer my questions .
This message was last edited by windtalker on 18/09/2016.
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Member states are already competing among themselves to have British-based EU agencies and research center’s relocated to their own countries following the Brexit vote, a former president of the European commission has disclosed. They employ currently 900 people.
Four central European countries are prepared to veto any Brexit deal agreed between the UK and the EU that restricts their citizens’ rights to live and work in Britain, the prime minister of Slovakia has said. They said further that would not hesitate to block any future trade accord that threatened the key EU principle of free movement of workers.
The EU is due to sign free trade agreements with the US and Canada abbreviated as TTIP and CETA. These agreements will fundamentally change the global trading relationship for EU nations giving their people access to US and Canadian markets tariff free.
After Brexit the UK will be excluded and be as Omama said ‘sent to the back of the queue’.
The European commission is to spend tens of millions more pounds on promoting the ideal of the EU citizen under plans drawn up by officials in Brussels in the wake of the Brexit vote. A reduction had been previously requested by the UK government. This is revealed in a report of the UK House of Commons’ European scrutiny committee regarding the EFC programme 2014-2020.
I like the concept of being an EU citizen and without Britain blocking every move towards an integrated nation Europe can move forward at a faster pace. There are benefits to being rid of Britain if you are not a UK centric thinker.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Wind talker. Please rephrase your question as I don't understand it. You asked how I would control immigration and I answered. You asked for a solution to the NHS FUNDING issue. I answered. So now as a Brexiter you need to deliver. If Brexit has no ideas they need to rejoin the studio audience and let the big people sort things out.
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Perripower1you still have have not answered my simple questions, how would you control economic emigration. from the EU which is clearly a extremely big problem in the UK costing the UK tax payers dearly with the massive strain on the NHS/Housing shortage/DSS benefits system that are only designed to cater for the UK populist not the whole of the EU.The IN camp lost in a Democratic vote because they could not resolve this issue Our PM try to resolve the issues but got sent back to the UK with his thumb stuck his backside in stead of a resolution from the stalwarts of the EU that refuse to accept the truth that the EU in it's present form is not working.
This message was last edited by windtalker on 18/09/2016.
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There is an article in today's Telegraph by Christopher Booker entitled "If you think Brexit will bring us control of our borders you are sadly deluded."
Windtalker I recommend you read it.
By far the largest single component in UK immigration, 18 per cent of it, mostly from Pakistan and the Indian sub-continent, derives originally from the right to “family reunion” enshrined in Article 8 of the ECHR.
ARTICLE 8 Right to respect for private and family life 1. Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence. 2. There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic wellbeing of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.
Of course if you believe Brexit will completely divorce itself from human rights conventions then thats another issue but Brexit was not about that or was it\?
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 18/09/2016.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Mickyfinn so we in the UK have approximately 300,000 of EU citizen that we know of entering the UK that cannot be controlled due to the EU rules.
And then we have approximately another 18% around the 25,000 mark that we do and can control .Then in anyone's book that make's the uncontrollable emigration from the EU a massive problem .and you do not have to politician to work out the problem.
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Brexit will completely divorce itself from human rights conventions
You are right Micky, Brexit is about freeing ourselves from the corrupt, inefficient, protectionist EU and regaining our freedom and democracy.
However when government considered our own Bill of Rights it found that it would be difficult to divorce ourselves from the ECHR while remaining a member of the EU.
I do not think anyone in Mrs May's administration has mentioned this at all, but it would be interesting to know where they stand because it would probably be a neccessary route to getting immigration down to the 10's of thousands.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 18/09/2016.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 18/09/2016.
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Human rights yes sure you need human rights so the likes of Abo Hansa AKA captain hook and many other UK haters that we offered a free first class ticked back to were the come from all of them used the (eubr) and duly refused.
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Does this imply that the ECHR have muddied the waters to deny EU member states the right to control their own borders with regard to economic migrants, or for that matter take account of a country's right to provide their fair quota towards humanitarian aid for refugees in the best manner they see fit, realistic (ability to forward plan and make adequate provision for reqd infrastructure etc), safe (effective monitoring of terrorists ), whilst ensuring the aid remains free from corruption ( not playing into the hands of people traffickers or those with hidden intent)? Have the ECHR not correctly evaluated the requirement for all of the above?
I'm trying to identify the shortfalls of the current ECHR?
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With regard to Ttip and Ceta there is growing distrust of these trade agreements and many EU citizens are rallying for a rethink in this regard, so not necessarily the panacea implied.
https://stop-ttip.org/what-is-the-problem-ttip-ceta/
This short introduction gives you the main arguments why TTIP and CETA are a threat to so many things we value and need – in less than five minutes.
So let’s begin:
The EU soon intends to sign two far-reaching trade agreements: One with Canada (CETA = Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement) and one with the USA (TTIP = Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership). The official line is that these will create jobs and increase economic growth. However, rather than citizens, it’s much more likely that only big corporations will benefit from them.
Here are the main reasons why:
Investors will be able to sue states. The so-called Investor-State-Dispute-Settlement (ISDS) – even in it’s new disguise as the EU’s “Investment Court System” (ICS) model – will grant foreign investors (i.e. Canadian and US companies) the right to sue European states if they believe that laws or measures of the EU or any member state have damaged their investments and reduced their expected profit. This will also affect laws and measures enacted in the interest of the common good, such as environmental and consumer protection.
Corporations will be invited to co-write new laws. The so-called “regulatory cooperation” will allow representatives of big business and bureaucrats from both sides of the Atlantic to influence draft laws in expert groups even before these are discussed in elected parliaments. This undermines democracy!
Big business has excessive influence on the secret negotiations for CETA and TTIP. In 92% of all stakeholder meetings the EU Commission held in the preparatory phase for TTIP, only representatives of companies were heard. Only in very few cases consumer and trade union representatives were invited to share their views. Corporate influence persists during the negotiations: Even some wordings in draft texts leaked to the public originate directly from corporate lobbyists.
The negotiations are conducted in secret. Our public representatives know little about their progress, and the general public is not allowed to see any of the official agreement’s texts until the negotiations are finished. Parliamentarians are only allowed to read these long legal texts (the CETA agreement, for example, has about 1,500 pages) in especially designated reading rooms without expert help, and are not allowed to tell the public what they have read. Once the negotiations are finished, they can only accept or reject the agreements, without being able to ask for changes.
Food quality standards and consumer protection could be weakened. Through the alignment of regulations, for which TTIP aims, European standards are endangered, as the US standards are often substantially weaker. Also, the US side wants the EU to accept its approach to risk assessment, which would allow every product to be sold until the state was able to prove it to be harmful. So far, in Europe companies must prove the harmlessness of their products before bringing them on the market.
Workers’ rights and jobs are endangered. The USA still refuse to recognise basic rights for employees (it has only ratified two out of the eight ILO core labour standards), and the “race to the bottom” triggered by TTIP could become a danger for employee rights in the EU as well. Also, tougher competition from abroad could lead to massive job losses. A study published by Tufts University (USA) found that 600,000 jobs could be lost due to TTIP. European countries would be falling under pressure to allow high-risk technologies such as fracking or GM technology. As part of TTIP and/or CETA, companies could be allowed to take governments to arbitrators if they regulate or ban high-risk technologies. In 2013, the oil and gas company Lone Pine filed a $250-million ISDS lawsuit against Canada, after the state of Quebec issued a moratorium on fracking. TTIP and CETA will pave the way for an ever increasing number of such lawsuits.
CETA and TTIP will further increase inequalities. Those already well off will profit most from CETA and TTIP. Big business will gain even more advantages over small and medium enterprises and citizens. The EU’s economic crisis is likely to deepen further, as the most competitive member states are expected to pocket most of the potential GDP increase. Countries on the EU’s periphery, that are already highly dependent on foreign capital, risk losing out on quality jobs and sustainable investment. On a global scale, inequality between developed and developing countries will increase further, with studies forecasting dramatic GDP drops and job losses in third countries. Liberalisation and privatisation will become one-way streets.
CETA and TTIP will make it more difficult – and probably even impossible – to return public utilities, hospitals, or waste collection to the public sector once they have been privatised. CETA and TTIP want to increase the power of multinationals at the expense of democracy and the general good.
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Simple soul that I am, the Brexit referendum, tory leadership change,labour leadership election and the US presidential election are a case of too many at the same time. Will Corbyn jump on the anti Brexit band wagon if elected? Will Trump sieze the opportunity to make peace with the Brexit supporters, following Obama (note correct spelling Mickyfinn) having a Brexit moment, if he is elected? Will Theresa May support her Brexit team, as and when it gives her it's recommendations?
I'm confident that the forum aficionados on all things EU & Brexit will have all the answers.
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IF YOU WISH TO QUOTE ANY OF MY POSTS PLEASE DO SO IN THEIR ENTIRETY AND NOT JUST A FEW SELECTED WORDS TOTALLY OUT OF CONTEXT.
THANK YOU.
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It’s important to effect the verbalization of concepts through the utilization of unsophisticated terminology.
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So you Brexiteers all agree a once great Britain will be separate from human rights conventions, single markets, financial regulations and world trade agreements. Quite a future in store. Getting rid of human rights conventions will not even cause a blip in immigration. People will move where they want to regardless of laws.
Tariffs will be imposed on everything from Irish butter to foreign holidays. Air flights and all things European will cost you more and all without accounting for Sterling that's likely to be trashed below parity with the Euro and even the US Dollar once Brexit becomes a reality and UK financial institutions head for Frankfurt.
I ask the question again how is Brexit going to improve the lives of ordinary working people?
British banks in the City have lent trillions to EU companies and will have no choice but to relocate within the EU to continue their legal frameworks and tariff free transactions they are locked into. British companies to remain competitive in tariff imposed world markets will need a permanently weak currency to survive and their exports to remain attractive.
All that anti globalisation and opposition to TTIP is left wing dogma and anti-capitalist rhetoric. The liberation of free trade historically brings massive benefit to ordinary people. The alternative does nothing and creates stagnation. I agree useless over manning in France and other EU states will be impacted in the labour markets but that is no bad thing. Competition in markets brings benefits and rewards. Restrictive practices and barriers create nothing but misery and unemployment.
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 18/09/2016.
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 18/09/2016.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Mr Trump finds that he has relatively little approbation for TTIP
It’s important to effect the verbalization of concepts through the utilization of unsophisticated terminology.
Ah
Trump hates TTIP
So much of the EU does not like it and according to the polls it is a 50% dead duck in America.
And Micky. As usual, and like some politicians, you give a faulty analysis then ask questions based on it. Most Brexiteers are free marketeers as well - NO TARIFFS - anywhere if possible (action to stop dumping and protect stratigic industry accepted). Freedom from EU external barriers so that we can advance fair trading terms to some of the poorer countries in the world, instead of putting barriers up which make them and us poorer.
Restrictive practices and barriers create nothing but misery and unemployment
Exactly
(50% youth unemployment in most of the southern part of the EU)
This message was last edited by tteedd on 18/09/2016.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 18/09/2016.
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