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sox,
Cameron has a 12 overall majority, perhaps the promise of the referendum sealed this, who knows?
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I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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I agree it's a huge political risk and yes this last election promise probably gained the Conservatives a majority. The prize is seeing off UKIP for a generation and the ageing rebel Tory backbenchers who only seen to be clinging on to their seats to see Brexit through.
Politics is about risk and high wire acts. If it comes off Cameron will be regarded as hero. Remember; 'Victory has many fathers but defeat is an orphan'.
Cameron will go in a few weeks of a post brexit vote despite what he says. The rest of us will have to live with the negative consequences for years.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Nobody is forcing you to become anything. That's a bit far-fetched is it not? Is that the EU's fault as well? I write about tolerance as a way forward to peaceful co-existence. Ethnic and cultural. Living in harmony among difference. Why can you not rise to that challenge? Why be negative and alleged cultural difference is about rape or living in a s**t hole as you call it.
Oh really, no one is forcing me to be anything are they, as I said Micky I don't think you live in the UK so how would you know, and please don't say because you visit. I am being forced in many ways to conform to what the irregular incomers want the UK to be.
Muslims are very caring people, yep we all know that don't we? Hindus and Buddhists might be well offended to put them in that same sentence.
I have been led to believe by the media, yes I will openly admit to reading some of the media, that if the UK came out it could sort out it's borders and control them better, I have no way of knowing yes or no, but I am willing to give it a try with the out vote.
So I have to rise to the challenge of seeing my country changed for the worse do I? I have been to many of these countries where this rubbish is coming in from, they are S**T holes due to the people making them that way, it would do you good to stop dishing the dirt on the people who read the media and read it yourself then you "Might" realise who for the most part is raping our girls, and doing its best to change what we have because they don't like it.
Unfortunately I do live in the real world, the UK, being negative is something I have never been, but seeing the truth, yes I do.
None of this above is any answer to the so called Brexit, just a tiny part of the whole. And since I like you have no idea of any repercussions of in or out. Thats it.
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This is an editors letter in todays Telegraph. I thought it worthy of reading.
SIR – Both sides in the debate on Britain’s future in the European Union have now attempted to use history to bolster their arguments.
A dispassionate view would show that an important cause of both world wars was the rise in nationalism that accentuated differences between people and erected false divisions. The latter half of the 20th century in Europe was largely spent trying to mend these schisms and increase cooperation. The EU was a product of this altruistic movement.
Today nationalism is on the rise again, both in this country and Europe as a whole. Brexit would be the most significant declaration of nationalism in recent years and could trigger a fragmentation of the EU, with potentially disastrous consequences.
Dr Hugh Saville.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Today nationalism is on the rise again, both in this country and Europe as a whole. Brexit would be the most significant declaration of nationalism in recent years and could trigger a fragmentation of the EU, with potentially disastrous consequences.
What does that mean? do I read it as if the UK got out the rest of the EU could fall apart..ie fragmentation...Well that cant be so because we have had to listen to the inners telling us how stable and secure the EU is.
As you might guess I haven't read the media news.
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Boris Johnson has lashed out at David Cameron after a leaked letter revealed the Prime Minister secretly plotted with big business to fight Brexit.
The former London Mayor said the revelation showed Mr Cameron's EU renegotiation bid was 'fiction' as he had already decided to campaign for a remain vote.
The secret ‘mobilisation’ plan involved asking FTSE 500 companies to put in their annual reports warnings about the dangers of Brexit.
The strategy was discussed in a letter from Serco boss Rupert Soames to Mr Cameron 11 days before the latter’s renegotiation deal with the EU was complete. This followed a meeting a few days earlier.
The PM had been telling the Commons that he ‘ruled nothing out’ unless he won concessions from the EU.
Responding to the claims today Mr Johnson said they made Britain look like a 'banana republic'. Serco has multi-billion-pound contracts with the Government.
'This is the biggest stitch up since the Bayeux Tapestry,' Mr Johnson said. 'It stinks to high heaven. FTSE 100 chiefs are seeing their pay packets soar while uncontrolled immigration is forcing down wages for British workers.
'Now we learn that some fat cats have been secretly agreeing to campaign for remain while angling for lavish Government contracts. It makes us look like a banana republic. And it is also now beyond doubt that the so called renegotiation was a fiction designed to bamboozle the public. It was a meaningless mime, a ritual, a kabuki drama in which the outcome was utterly preordained. This is not the far-reaching and fundamental reform we were promised.'
Daily Mail on line...Not to be believed.
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Boris right again I see. The buffoon has nailed it on the head. Don't like the guy but he must be eating something good if HE recognises the truth.
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The role of a prime minister is to discover all shades of opinion before making decisions of this nature. It would be very remiss of him not to do that. He needs to know where the level of support lies and also the au contraire.
BoJo knows that full well of course but in this headline grabbing period anything goes. Judging from the comments you have made some seem to have swallowed it hook line and sinker.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Micky Finn ! Are you real ? You haven't answered my question as to why DC has called a referendum....unless of course you are meaning he needs to discover all shades of opinion before making decisions !! So a referendum is needed on our nation's security and wealth and for the next X amount of years Austerity,or world war 3 starting !! Yet he doesn't hold a referendum on less risks to our economy and security, is he going to discover all shades of opinion before making a decision on Doctors Contracts, or MP's Pay or Tuition fees...the list could go on and on.
This message was last edited by sox on 17/05/2016.
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Am I real sox? That provocative remark hardly encourages an intelligent response. Why do I have to answer to you for anything?
I am pleased to read today the latest Telegraph opinion polls which give the remain 55% the outers 40%. Perhaps my suspicions that contributors to this thread do not necessarily reflect a wide body of British public opinion.
Sterling strengthen on the back of this data. The markets are also encouraged.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Just listened to Chris Grayling being interviwed on Sky News, he doesn't agree with the following but further doesn't deny that Boris and Farage may seek a second referendum if the 'inners' win by a short head. This must bring forth a similar statement from Cameron, we could go on indefinitely, how about replaying Cup Finals that are only won by a single goal? 
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I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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Hep
Couldn't agree more, majority decision should be final.
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Micky Finn....my question wasn't provocative at all ,nor do you have to answer, but you want a debate? Or maybe not !! As I am still undecided on which way to vote but certainly don't think your comments are good enough to persuade me, and as earlier stated some of your comments are bullying !!
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Back in 1972 I had a good job, nice car and had just put £1,000 deposit on a brand new apartment costing £6,500,all this without the UK being a member of the Common Market, EEC, EU or whatever else it might have been called. These days a similar percentage deposit (15.38%) on a similar apartment (circa £100K) appears to be a lot harder to put together than in the bad old days.
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I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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Micky Finn ! Are you real ? You haven't answered my question
I think that's quite bullying sox but I'm a grown up fully developed adult.
If you are undecided how to vote then consider the certainty of uncertainty for years and ask how that effect is likely to stifle the British economy, employment and the housing market.
How it will also impact the rest of Europe if Britain leaves. Spain for example will suffer a market shock through Sterling devaluation and property becoming more expensive. Many Brits living in Spain on pensions will struggle. Historically that has always happened when a major shock such as Brexit happens. It will not be any different this time around.
What will be achieved? I read the slogan 'getting back our democracy'! Well I don't think Britain is less democratic in Europe than out of it. It's just something the Brexiteers use to try and persuade people of their argument. It is actually meaningless because the British parliament is sovereign and can vote in a majority to leave the EU at any time.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Well Norway was told that the end of the world was coming to them....Nothing happened.
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In the Sunday Times this week a group of people, including a Barrister in Law (London), German Professors from Berlin, Potsdam University, Freiburg University, Marburg University, Tubingen University, Mannheim University, two MEPs , one of whom was former president of the German Federation of Industry, wrote a letter titled "Germans' EU Warning."
".....The deal does not go far beyond existing British opt- outs and vague commitments.....there is nothing in this deal that protects the UK from Luxembourg's future judicial activism. Moreover the supposed " red card" whereby national parliaments can veto EU legislation envisages impractical circumstances where the opposition parties in 16 countries simultaneously stage a successful rebellion against their majority governments.
In it they go on to conclude, "...... most reform minded Germans hope Britain stays in the EU. But EU reform is a losing battle and many of us envy the British for having this debate and this referendum. And the chance to disembark from an EU project whose integration now threatens to undermine, rather than uphold, the liberty and prosperity of our continent."
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Space: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the Starship Cameron. Its five-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and civilisations, to boldly go where no Prime Minister has gone before.
The first draft of today’s Queen’s Speech reads like an episode of Star Trek. Instead of confronting real-world problems, such as mass immigration and crumbling public services, Call Me Dave has decided to promise us a glorious future of cheap space travel and driverless cars.
The Government is considering eight potential sites in Scotland, Wales and Cornwall for the construction of Britain’s first commercial space port, which ministers assure us will be operational before the end of the current parliament in 2020.
Once up and running it will cater for regular satellite launches and send rocketloads of tourists into space.
Meanwhile I want a hip replacement....Cant you limp a bit more until I promise to build "Another" hospital.
Meanwhile I would like to buy a house....So whats wrong with a damp one bedroom rackman designer flat.
Meanwhile I have just lost my job....Working on that one, for now sign on for more, loads more, benefits.
Meanwhile I have kids who are the only one's who speak English in school....Good to learn another dialect.
Meanwhile I would like a decent speed internet connection....Will answer that later on, mines down as well.
And we are now expected to believe Cameron about what it will be like if we leave.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36319141
Above is an example of how we can benefit in the UK when we leave the EU
Love Hugh xx
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Done the Spain thing Happier in the UK
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Well Norway was told that the end of the world was coming to them....Nothing happened.
Norway has never been a full EU member. It is a member of the EEA and as such has to comply with all EU regulations without the ability to vote for policy or influence the commission. In return it has access to the single market.
WIKI quote:
Overall, this means that Norway has implemented about three quarters of EU legislation of all types. While the Norwegian parliament has to approve all new legislation which has "significant new obligations", this has been widely supported and usually uncontested; between 1992 and 2011, 92% of EU laws were approved unanimously, and most of the rest by a broad majority.
The lists of grievances you have written on here baz have everything to do with your national government in the UK and nothing whatever to do with the UK's EU membership. You blame the EU for UK domestic policy and don't seem to understand the difference.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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